Chassis grafting ...

[RenoHuskerDu]

Just picked up this 1986 single cab long bed F250.  Only 85k miles, no rust to speak of.  4x4 with a T-18, 6.9 IDI. All ya gotta do in Texas is watch CraigsList, keep a wad of cash in the safe, and be ready to go when you see a deal. I got this for $700.

I had a random thought looking at the frame. I wonder if a single cab long bed F250 has the same frame as a cab+1/2 short bed. And if so, would a swap be feasible?  We have enough parts Bullnoses now to pull it off.

An extended cab short bed might be worth some money. But of course it might also be a mutt that no collector would touch. Did Furd even make an F250 4x4 short bed? I thought only 150s came in short bed.

More importantly, ecsb would be useful for my daughter as a daily driver. She needs more cab space and little bed space.



Finally got the hood open. Still has that grey IH paint, no apparent oil leaks. Sweet.

[minipower]

Of course I'm gonna say it. With enough knowledge and skill - you can pull anything off.

Mulling it through my head, I think mass production makes more sense to use as many similar parts and mounting points as possible. Can a 250 inner fender fit a 150 ? how aboot doors, can they be switched out ?

Maybe check to make sure they use the same type of suspension. Leaf/coil or hybrid red-headed step-child ? Would it need to change leaf spring perches or swap them in to out or vice-versa.

Put the cab on - put the bed on. cut or un-rivet and move the rear cab and front bed mounts.

The question I'll ask you. How my time and effort do you want to put in, the more imagination you have the easier it may be. and would it be easier to cut and extend or shorten the frame you have now ?

Check suspention type and then use a tape measure to confirm or not - the same dimensions

[ArdWrknTrk]

First off, a diesel is going to have a T-19, not a T-18.
Synchro 1st and a PTO window on the driver's side too.

The frames are different.
Look at how the rails kink up behind the cab.
Look at how the cab mounts set down on the frame.

[ArdWrknTrk]

minipower wrote

........Mulling it through my head, I think mass production makes more sense to use as many similar parts and mounting points as possible. Can a 250 inner fender fit a 150 ? how aboot doors, can they be switched out?......

250/350 frames are considerably thicker, and C&C frames thicker still (while being narrower and having narrower springs)     Cabs are the same right up into the 650's
Trucks with leaf spring front ends need the front rails boxed to support the shackles and of course they don't have any fittings for radius arms.
Diesel/460 trucks have a completely different engine crossmember, etc.....

Wheelbase is an issue.  I don't recall any SCSB trucks in this era.  

I stand corrected.
It seems there is a 138.8" wheelbase supercab 4x2 shown for 1982.
http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/1982-light-truck-facts-book.html

Of course there were no manual diesel or 460 trucks until 1983.
And there was no diesel option in those 150's, but the thinner 150 frame was available with the correct supercab mounts and short bed wheelbase.

[Gary Lewis]

Yep, cabs, doors, beds, fender liners, hoods, etc all were the same from F100's right on up through the line.  The main differences were in the frame, as Jim pointed out.

I can see that a nice table of what combinations of cabs and beds would be handy.  But then there's the complication of "that was only available with 2wd" or some such that would make it difficult to create as well as use.

[RenoHuskerDu]

I must have stated my question poorly, so I'll try to restate it.

Could I build an extended cab short bed F250 by dropping an extended cab and short bed on this F250 HD 4x4 SCLB frame?  Did Ford offer an ECSB F250 HD?  There are no 150s in my question, just F250 diesel parts trucks assembled to make a possible Frankenstein. I might grab the cab and/or bed from an F150, but that's all.

And just to confirm what I've heard several times at NAPA, is every diesel F250 Bullnose (or Bricky) a HD model?  NAPA told me this when I bought brake hardware for our trucks.

From page 6 of the 1982 Light Trucks Fact Book that Gary posted:
BTW, is there a method to download that entire doc? I only found download by chapter...

[kramttocs]

Interesting swap idea. Subscribed.
Yes on the diesels. Also would have the Dana50 if 4x4.

Looks like there may be a mixing of Regular cab and Super cab abbreviations used. I've seen both used on various forums. Did Ford abbreviate them?

RC - regular cab
or
SC - single cab

EC - extended cab
or
SC - supercab

Your 86 is a Supercab right? Asking as I'd start measuring out the differences like the rear cab mounts to see what would need modified.

[Gary Lewis]

The F150 and F250 bit doesn't matter.  The tops of the frames and crossmembers are in the same exact place for all of the trucks so the body will fit.

Jim's point about the kickup behind the cab is probably the issue.  You can see the kickup here, although it actually starts ahead of the back of the cab as you can see the rear cab mounts just in front of the bed in this pic, which is of Dad's truck - a regular cab long bed.

From there on back the frame is straight save for the kickup for the rear axle.





You may be thinking you can move that crossmember back to line up with the rear of a Supercab.  But this shot from Big Blue suggests that if the floor of the Supercab is flat, like I think it is, it'll hit the frame.  I don't know that for sure, but that's my guess.

[ArdWrknTrk]

If you can figure out where to get the 5.8" difference in wheel base and how to keep the 19"(?) longer cab from hitting the regular cab frame, I'm sure it will work.

What I was saying was that even if you had a super cab/short bed frame from a 2wd 150 your engine and suspension components are incompatible with the crossmember and spring mounting.

[ArdWrknTrk]

RenoHuskerDu wrote

And just to confirm what I've heard several times at NAPA, is every diesel F250 Bullnose (or Bricky) a HD model?  NAPA told me this when I bought brake hardware for our trucks.

Diesel was not an engine option for trucks under 8,500# gvw.
And that is where EPA decided to make the cutoff for emissions compliance reasons.

The guy from NAPA is correct about that.

[RenoHuskerDu]

Well Gary and Mr Ard Wkn Truck have weighed in with the facts needed. My idea is a no-go.  It was fun for a day though.  I didn't compare my 86 eclb with this sclb. The new truck is still on the trailer getting cleaned up.

I don't know if it's just this area of Texas, but we often say sc for single cab, ec for extended, cc for crew. We also tend to say cab, cab and 1/2, or double cab. We don't bring food to the bbq, we brang it. There are no quads here, they're 4wheelers. The list is endless. It was fun moving here.

Thanks guys

[minipower]

Sorry to hear - My idea is a no-go

What made you give up aboot doing it ?

[Nothing Special]

People have put SuperCabs on a regular cab frame.  It either requires about a 3" body lift to get the rear of the cab on top of the kicked up frame, or else channeling the rear of the cab to get it to sit down over the frame rails.  Both get a little hokey, but it's not impossible.

And Ford did make F-250 SuperCab short beds starting in about '95 through '97.  So not exactly what you're looking for, but the frames at least are really close.


For what it's worth, Texas isn't the only place that calls SuperCabs extended cab.  That's the Chevy name for it, and since Chevy is the second largest truck manufacturer, and since their extended cab was introduced a few years after Ford'd SuperCab, the Chevy language sort of dominates the market.  (Wait a minute, who's the LARGEST truck manufacturer that came out with that size cab first, and why doesn't THEIR language dominate the market?)

I'm not sure how official "regular cab" is for Fords.  But when people who are used to texting on a 10-key are trying to abbreviate everything, "SC" was already taken for "SuperCab" so they needed a different letter for the standard, er, single, I mean regular cab.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think the close to 6" of wheelbase that's missing from a "regular" styleside 133" is going to be an issue.
Unless you choose to go with rear tank only and find 6" to cut out the front of a short bed.

Bob, I can see how the cab would work with enough body lift, but somehow you need to get the wheels close to center in the arches.
Maybe it would be better to cut down a crew cab 155" wb frame to 138.8"?

Either option is not using much of this new truck.

[kramttocs]

RenoHuskerDu wrote

We don't bring food to the bbq, we brang it.

As long as you don't forget the coke and I am using that as an all-encompassing term for soft drinks.
For me it will always be 3 and 4 wheelers as well.

[85lebaront2]

Damn, Jim, when did a crew cab lose 13" of wheelbase? Darth is 168" wheelbase, 155" was super cab and 133" single cab. all with the 8' bed. That was why when I put the fuel tanks and lines from the 1990 F250 I had to add 35" of fuel line and evaporative system along with adding 35" to the front of the chassis harness in order to get everything connected.

[ArdWrknTrk]

     Sorry.... Super Cab Long Bed

A crew cab frame would be a lot to cut out. But I guess it would leave you with enough to plate the graft.

[minipower]

RenoHuskerDu

Was this one of those  --  It sounded like a good idea when I was high --

We've all been there