C6 plumbing

[Angelo Voltura]

I haven't bought any line yet for transmission fluid. I have all my fuel stuff, but finding braided hoses for trans line specific is a bit tough. From my research it seems to be compatible with most fluids regardless of what they are vs standard rubber hose where it is specific. I'm sure that has something to do with why the cost is so high for hose.

[ArdWrknTrk]

PTFE is one of the more inert things man has made (yet).
But it does have heat limitations. Probably not transmission fluid hot, but definitely frying pan hot.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, was just making sure.  Wouldn't want you to have a problem.  

[Angelo Voltura]

Gary Lewis wrote

Ok, was just making sure.  Wouldn't want you to have a problem.  

That's the last thing I want.

According to Summit, their brand stainless braided hose is compatible with just about everything. Looking like I'm going to have to spend some time this week figuring out trans plumbing! There's always something I'm forgetting...

[Gary Lewis]

Seems like that's the right stuff to use.

What filter are you going to use?  Are you going to place it where it can easily be replaced?

[Angelo Voltura]

I bought a Derale filter system a while back the utilizes a screw on style general oil filter. I'll be using a FL1A filter as that filter is compatible with motor oil and automatic transmission fluid.

It's a pretty basic setup that has a 3 bolt 90 degree flange for a screw on style filter, and the center threaded stud comes in multiple changeable sizes with numerous size NPT fittings that thread into the top of the house, though the fittings that came with it are nylon, so I will be changing those.

I was thinking about mounting it on the outside of the passenger side frame rail, but cant decide if I want the lines to run up and over the top of the rail or underneath it.


My problem with putting it there is I worry about stone punctures from the front tire, so I will probably fab up some kind of shield.

[Gary Lewis]

That's quite a filter.  Should help the tranny's life, but you do need to protect it, so the shield sounds like a good idea.

[Angelo Voltura]

I think I'm going to use a piece of aluminum diamond plate, and bolt it to the under side of the frame. Did it once a while back with dads truck for this old fuel pump setup. I'd rather not puncture a hole in the filter.

I do wish I owned my own 2 post lift. I can use the lifts a work, but with everything going on right they don't want anyone in there.

If I could figure out a place to put it under the hood and make it look clean I would, but I think the frame will be ok. Although the firewall is an option.

[kramttocs]

Thanks Gary for getting those measurements.

Have a photo of the filter unit?

How low will the filter be hanging down if you bolt the plate to the frame? If you mock it up, take a photo for us.

[Angelo Voltura]

kramttocs wrote

Thanks Gary for getting those measurements.

Have a photo of the filter unit?

How low will the filter be hanging down if you bolt the plate to the frame? If you mock it up, take a photo for us.

This is the filter unit.



I won't be using those screws; I'll be opting for stainless grade 8 bolts if I bolt it to the frame, or something less if I put it under the hood. The filter screw stud is pretty standard 3/4-16 thread so most oil filters are compatible. It's pretty basic and easy to add in to any transmission system. Also, the whole housing is cast aluminum, so it doesn't weigh much. The inlet and outlet ports are 1/2 NPT.

If I mount it on the frame the idea will be to put it up as high on the frame as I can so I have room to spin it off without removing the shield; I have thought of making a bit of a "quick remove" shield, where instead of using 2 nuts and bolts to fasten it, I would use a bolt through the bottom of the frame with a lock washer and a wing nut so I can easy remove it when changing the filter and not make a mess everywhere.

It would be setup something similar to this; this is what we did on Dad's when we were still running the Holley fuel pump. I do think I will make the angled section probably more vertical/box shaped since the filter system is larger than that fuel pump.




The other thing I'm concerned with is hose/line routing. If I go outside the frame, then I have to find away around the exhaust and frame, whereas if I go to the firewall it goes straight up front. Another spot I have thought about is up by the cooler in front of the core support, but I'm not really a fan of it being there; difficult to get to and vulnerable.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Derale make good stuff (at least they did 40 years ago, when I was racing bikes)

Since I'm an idiot, how much line pressure does a C6 put out?
How often would you suggest changing the filter?

I'm only asking because -as I see it- there are no combustion byproducts from a transmission.
Friction material, I understand. Carbonized fluid I suppose, if a band gets cooked.
Shards, if there is a catastrophic failure?

[Angelo Voltura]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Derale make good stuff (at least they did 40 years ago, when I was racing bikes)

Since I'm an idiot, how much line pressure does a C6 put out?
How often would you suggest changing the filter?

I'm only asking because -as I see it- there are no combustion byproducts from a transmission.
Friction material, I understand. Carbonized fluid I suppose, if a band gets cooked.
Shards, if there is a catastrophic failure?

It feels like a pretty solid piece, the castings in the threads are a little rough, but I wasn't expecting much for $20. I was honestly surprised it came with barb fittings.

According to my Haynes manual, C6 line pressures should be at the following:

Neutral, engine idling, 50-80 psi
1/2/Drive, engine idling, 50-95 psi
Reverse, engine idling, 60-150 psi

Ford themselves actually used to install external filter kits with Magnefine 15 micron filters when installing reman transmissions but they stopped that a while back. I'm basically doing it for a few reasons. I would replace it same time as an oil change.

-It's cheap insurance; I can easily cut it open for inspection if I suspect a problem.
-Easily serviceable
-Keeps fluid fairly fresh; roughly 12-15% of fluid is replaced with a change.
-Helps keep fluid temps down especially with a cooler; average C6 operates at 190-210+ degrees. The optimal transmission temp is around 170 at all times.
-Holds 2+ quarts more capacity

I run this transmission pretty hard, so anything to help her out is worth it IMO.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Even at 5k OCI that's gotta be 1/10th the recommended transmission service.
The lines must be pretty big. I can't get a quart of oil into my filter come oil change time.

150 psi at idle would have me wondering how much pressure a filter can take, especially with the rpm up.
I'm sure there are videos on YouTube.

The 170* optimal temp is full explanation for Mark's recommendation to run the fluid through the cool side of the radiator on the way back to the transmission.

ETA: Do you intend to stick a magnet on the filter?

Thank you!
Good to learn something every day.  

[Angelo Voltura]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Even at 5k OCI that's gotta be 1/10th the recommended transmission service.
The lines must be pretty big. I can't get a quart of oil into my filter come oil change time.

150 psi at idle would have me wondering how much pressure a filter can take, especially with the rpm up.
I'm sure there are videos on YouTube.

The 170* optimal temp is full explanation for Mark's recommendation to run the fluid through the cool side of the radiator on the way back to the transmission.

ETA: Do you intend to stick a magnet on the filter?

Thank you!
Good to learn something every day.  

I figure if I can keep it fairly fresh it can't hurt anything. The lines out of the trans are going to be adapted up to 3/8 from 5/16 and adapter up to 1/2 at the filter inlet then back to 3/8 before it goes back into the trans. Nothing adapters can't take care of.

I am using a FL1A filter, which is manufactured by Purolater under the Motorcraft name, and is a 20 micron filter which is better than what Ford used for remans, and the maximum burst pressure for that filter is 280psi, so I am well in the confinements for what is required as far as line pressure goes. Ford spec for absolute minimum allowable burst pressure is 200psi; in which case most standard 3/4-16 oil filters fall in this category. This particular filter also has a bypass relief valve built in and opens around 10-14psi give or take. Thermal efficiency is at 93% @ 20 microns and overall is somewhere between the Puralator Classic and PureOne, so overall it's a pretty good filter.

I honestly didn't even think about sticking a magnet to the filter, but that doesnt sound like a half bad idea.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Purolator makes a good filter.
So does Wix/Dana IMO.

The relief only comes into play when the filter is so clogged it sees that kind of drop across the media.
Much more than that (given the square inches of media) would push the innards right out any way.
If the whole system is at 200 psi, there's no bypass.

It troubles me to see the "One" is only filtering to 40 micron (according to Purolator's information)

Love the fact that Wal-Mart has Motorcraft for cheap, though I do have a bunch of Speed Perk bucks I need to use before I lose.
Commented the other day that I was glad to see Advance seems to have purged themselves of Fram.

[Angelo Voltura]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Purolator makes a good filter.
So does Wix/Dana IMO.

The relief only comes into play when the filter is so clogged it sees that kind of drop across the media.
Much more than that (given the square inches of media) would push the innards right out any way.
If the whole system is at 200 psi, there's no bypass.

It troubles me to see the "One" is only filtering to 40 micron (according to Purolator's information)

Love the fact that Wal-Mart has Motorcraft for cheap, though I do have a bunch of Speed Perk bucks I need to use before I lose.
Commented the other day that I was glad to see Advance seems to have purged themselves of Fram.

Right. It made me feel better knowing it had a bypass, not that I think it will ever need it but having the piece of mind is nice. Fun fact: Carquest basic red filters sold at Advance and Carquest are a Wix filter.

Don't get me started on Advance. I also work for them...company is nothing but full of greedy management. The speed perks system is an absolutely joke if you ask me. But yes we no longer carry any Fram garbage.

Being a Ford employee tho I almost never pay for oil filters ;)

[ArdWrknTrk]

NAPA filters are Wix too.

Yeah, I don't have many good things to say about Advance's administration.
But, the guys I've known from CarQuest stores for decades still have jobs (so there is that)
Sales goals, and discipline/demerits are the sort of thing that really chafes me.

Speedperks is just there to keep customers engaged.
I get better pricing every day at the commercial desk.
But a "free" $10 or more will make me stop for something I needed anyhow.

[85lebaront2]

Jim, I buy all my Motorcraft filters from Wally World, the local independent Jobber carries Wix which is what is on the Chrysler engine currently as even though Wally World carries Mopar filters, their little lookup device only shows a Fram filter for those engines (thread and base is the same as the Fl1a but frame clearance makes it interesting).

[Gary Lewis]

Angelo - Do you have the charcoal canister under the battery?  If not, how 'bout placing the filter there?  The factory hard lines run up that way anyway, and you'd stay inside the frame.

[Angelo Voltura]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

NAPA filters are Wix too.

Yeah, I don't have many good things to say about Advance's administration.
But, the guys I've known from CarQuest stores for decades still have jobs (so there is that)
Sales goals, and discipline/demerits are the sort of thing that really chafes me.

Speedperks is just there to keep customers engaged.
I get better pricing every day at the commercial desk.
But a "free" $10 or more will make me stop for something I needed anyhow.

The CarQuest stores are independently owned and operated, Advance just owns them corporately to bring in sales for the company. In other words CQ is just an Advance subsidiary. The Speed Perks system they had before was much better. You get nothing more than $5 now. Before, you could get $10, $20, and $50; that's gone now. There was a brief period during this past years holiday season where they were actually letting you double up on them at checkout, but then they realized how much money they were losing so they took that away again. I can't even see what a particular account has; just how many points.

The commercial desk is the way to go, best thing to do is make friends with the parts store guys. A lot of times they will hook you up. I know I definitely take care of my repeat customers, friends and family.

85lebaront2 wrote

Jim, I buy all my Motorcraft filters from Wally World, the local independent Jobber carries Wix which is what is on the Chrysler engine currently as even though Wally World carries Mopar filters, their little lookup device only shows a Fram filter for those engines (thread and base is the same as the Fl1a but frame clearance makes it interesting).

Yeah 3/4x16 is a pretty common thread size, you can get them with different size bodies.

Gary Lewis wrote

Angelo - Do you have the charcoal canister under the battery?  If not, how 'bout placing the filter there?  The factory hard lines run up that way anyway, and you'd stay inside the frame.

No, any and every emissions equipment feasible on this thing is long, long gone. That is a thought as well, but I'd like to keep it away from the pan/pulleys. If I snap a belt, who knows what will happen. Maybe I'm being too picky.