Big Brother is going 3G

[BigBrother-84]

Dear Forum Friends.
Well well well.

I have couple of small projects for Big Bro this summer.
And my biggest one will be a nice 1G to 3G swap.

So, let’s start this thread, in which y’all be posting every suggestions and advices that you wish to.


I’ll begin by saying why I decided to proceed.

The main reason is about idle engine speed.
Big Bro is kind of retired.  Mainly turning around the farm, pulling the manure trailer once a month in the backyard.  Sometimes going to town (3 minutes from home), for fueling and shopping.
So, the engine rarely runs high rpm, and if so not for a long time.
A 3G will offer better amperage, and stronger charging at idle speed.

The second reason is for boosting my mom’s car.

Well, had to do it twice this winter, and I felt that Big Bro wasn’t well equipped for that simple task.

But let’s be more serious, a little more power for some accessories would be nice (a portable cooler, for example).

NOW.

What I would prefer to avoid:

- Complicated bracket adjustments.  Would be nice to find a more powerful 3G that fits in the 1G place, no fitting.

- Serpentine belt.  Keeping my V-belt setup would be really nice.

What I am willing for:

- Go for a cluster gauge swap.

- Go to less powered 3G, if this is a condition to avoid the things I prefer to avoid.  Remember that Big Bro doesn’t have heavy electrical equipment or accessories (no a/c, no powered windows, no winch).  So 130A isn’t an absolute goal.

- Reclock the new 3G.

- Other non complicated adjustments (remember!  The Lazy Mechanic! ).

Kind of «most plug’n play project as possible».

Please feel free to ask any questions if I haven’t been enough clear about my goals.

I want to prepare everything before jumping under the hood.
I don’t want to stall Big Bro too long.

I am not looking for the cheapest or economical solution.  I am willing to pay for the simplest program.

Thanks in advance for your advices!

Let’s the debate starts!

[Gary Lewis]

Subscribed.

And don't miss Bill's post here and Jim's post immediately thereafter.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

.
And don't miss Bill's post here and Jim's post immediately thereafter.

Lol!  I was posting Bill and Jim while you were subscribing here!

[Gary Lewis]

With the right alternator you shouldn't have to clock it.  And the only things you'll have to mod are to make a slight bend in the mounting arm and tap the hole Jim was talking about.  Oh yeah, replace the serpentine pulley with your existing v-belt pulley.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

With the right alternator you shouldn't have to clock it.

Good news!  We have plenty time to discuss about the right model to buy.

Gary Lewis wrote

And the only things you'll have to mod are to make a slight bend in the mounting arm and tap the hole Jim was talking about.

That’s in my «to avoid» list, but if not complicated, I can go there.

Gary Lewis wrote

Oh yeah, replace the serpentine pulley with your existing v-belt pulley.

Interesting point.  I am wondering  about some discussions I read about the V-Belt capability to turn a higher amperage alternator, without slipping.

[Gary Lewis]

It isn’t foo complicated. You can do it.

As for the v-belt, they are good for 90 - 100A if you have enough wrap around the pulley. So a 90A alternator might be good for you.

But the squeal at startup may be a concern and, if so, you might want to go with a Load Response Control regulator. There are different ramp rates, but a common one goes to full charge in 2.5 seconds. That smooths the startup such that belt squeal is not usually a problem.

To swap a regulator you pull 4 screws, take the old one out, lay the new one in, and add the screws.

[ArdWrknTrk]

BigBrother-84 wrote

Gary Lewis wrote

With the right alternator you shouldn't have to clock it.

Good news!  We have plenty time to discuss about the right model to buy.

Gary Lewis wrote

And the only things you'll have to mod are to make a slight bend in the mounting arm and tap the hole Jim was talking about.

That’s in my «to avoid» list, but if not complicated, I can go there.

Gary Lewis wrote

Oh yeah, replace the serpentine pulley with your existing v-belt pulley.

Interesting point.  I am wondering  about some discussions I read about the V-Belt capability to turn a higher amperage alternator, without slipping.

Tell me what your clocking is now.

95A comes from a 3.0 V-6 of the same vintages (92-97) and can be 7" C-C, BUT because the adjuster ear is thicker than a 1 or 2G you still have to bend the crescent shaped adjuster....

If you get the one with the 8mm hole you can run a 3/8 NC tap in under power and you're done. (this, to simplify tools -all engine bolts are SAE-) and the adjuster arm is meant to fit 3/8, NOT 5/16 (8mm)

Install a LRC regulator and 99% of the slipping is eliminated.
If the truck has sat and it's battery is low it will still squeal until the belt gets hot* and grabs.

Dammit phone!  😖

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

As for the v-belt, they are good for 90 - 100A if you have enough wrap around the pulley. So a 90A alternator might be good for you.

IIRC Ryan's video, they get to abt 107A before it starts to slip (and this is 'normal' tension/deflection)

The real advantage of the 3G is it's ability to make power at far lower rpm that 1 or 2G units.

[Gary Lewis]

Your rememberer is better than mine.  

[viven44]

Does it utilize a straight-up double roller timing chain ?

BTW, my Bronco definitely needed a 3G with all the  it had on it. Train horn when the factory horn worked just fine!!, light bar on the bumper, light bars on the body, 750W subwoofer, and a few other things I had no idea what they were.  All of that were the first things to go and I don't recall removing any relays!!

Watching this thread as this upgrade is possible in the future.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I recall you and Chris T discussing archiving both RJM & Ford Fuel Injection sites when Ryan disappeared.
Shame..

Maybe the Way Back?  

[Gary Lewis]

I've found it before, but looked for it recently and didn't find it.  I'll have a look again after a bit.

[Gary Lewis]

Haven't found the bit on how much power a v-belt pulley can handle, but have found these:

RJM Injection Tech home page as of April 3rd, 2007

RJM Injection Tech home page as of Sept 6, 2011

RJM Tech Library as of Feb 10th, 2007

RJM 3G Install as of Oct 15, 2007

Wayback Machine options for RJM Injection Tech so you can pick other dates

We might want to figure out how to actually clone that so it doesn't go away.

[Gary Lewis]

Oh, and Jeff will want to see this one: 3G Alternator Voltage Regulator Replacement

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't know how worthwhile the tech library is if all the links are dead....

But the October right up on installing a 3G certainly has merit

[Gary Lewis]

So far none of the links are dead.  I just downloaded INDUCTION BLUES: HOW DOES IT ALL WORK?  It explains how MAF works.

[BigBrother-84]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Tell me what your clocking is now.

Jim, I need you help to give you the right answer.  Not sure what measurements I should do.

Here are two pictures of Big Bro's 1G (not easy to take picts down there, I do my best!).




Oh, and these acrobatic pictures highlighted some worrying factors:  Look at this exposed wire.
Hoping this is a ground!

[ArdWrknTrk]

I suppose it doesn't matter much with a 1G because there is no regulator plug and wires on studs can point in any direction.

Give me a few minutes (it's just starting to rain) and I will try to get the photos of the rear of a 3G from the tutorial.

Then we can determine what is going to point that regulator plug towards the fender.

[Gary Lewis]

Here's a pic from this RJM page:

[ArdWrknTrk]

Right
But on my 460 the pivot is at the top and the adjuster on the bottom.

That alternator would be pointing at the block.