Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - I don't think there's any chance these locks are going to magically turn out of or into Lock.  At least unless I find something seriously jamming them that can be cleared up.  I've never seen locks this tight.

Steve - You make a good point about the switches.  But one thing you didn't really say, although you implied it, is that the tighter the switches are packed in the harder it will be to get the right one.  Even though I'll have the D60 with SD springs and an RSK, it'll still ride rather stiffly.  One of the dumb things Ford did on my F150 is to make the nav system's input via the touch screen.  Granted it is an F150, but it is still a truck, and if you don't rest your hand on something for steadying it is very difficult to hit the right "button".  So packing the switches in tightly is probably not the best idea.

However, I didn't fully convey my thinking on how to differentiate the switches.  First, the lever itself is available in black, gray, white, and red.  And, it is available with two rows of raised bumps, like the OX switch, or three indented lines. Then the lens is available in clear, white, amber, green, red, and blue.  So there's plenty of options to make them appear different.

However, I also have a plan (a cunning plan to borrow Dogsbody's phrase) to illuminate them at night.  The LED in them is a separate circuit, so if I use a resistor from the dash lighting circuit and a diode to each switch the LED's can glow at night.  And if I have different colored lenses and perhaps legends they should be distinguishable even at night.

[Nothing Special]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I have Warn premiums now, and while they are stiff they don't seize up and they don't lock themselves on the passenger side like the plastic ones were doing.

It got to the point that I seriously considered someone was pranking me.

Exactly why I have Warn Premiums instead of Standards.

[Steve83]

Gary Lewis wrote

...the nav system's input via the touch screen.  Granted it is an F150, but it is still a truck, and if you don't rest your hand on something for steadying it is very difficult to hit the right "button".

On my friend's '17 F150, most of the nav functions are locked out when the truck is moving over ~3mph.

Gary Lewis wrote

...a cunning plan to borrow Dogsbody's phrase...

I know Baldrick used that a few times, but I thought Lord Blackadder came up with it, after killing the king.



I think I still have these:

[Gary Lewis]

I've watched all of the Blackadder series (three?), but I forget who first came up with the catch phrase.  So, I'll bet you are right.  

On the nav system, you can't input a destination while moving on mine, but you can pan and zoom.  However, it is a really clunky system.  By FAR the worst nav system I've ever used.  Most have a joy stick to let you pan or zoom, but not this one.  You have to drag to pan, and there's a noticeable delay which makes it awkward.  And after two minutes it reverts to where you are.  So you can't use my trick of placing the cursor on the intersection where you are to turn as it will revert back before you get there.

Anyway, on those hubs and locks, I'm glad to see that they can be smooth.  I had a few minutes watching the g-twins bike so took these outside and cleaned and lubed them.  The main drag appears to be the o-rings on the dials/knobs themselves, one if which is cracked.  And I lost one of the large o-rings that goes between the cap and the hub.  Plus, the cap's bore is corroded a little bit at one spot where the knob's o-ring rides.  It'll probably clean up, but then it'll probably corrode again since the chrome has been penetrated.  In any event, I did get them to be free enough that I can turn them fairly easily.

Given that, one of two things needs to be done.  The cheaper solution would be to find a rebuild kit for these caps to get the o-rings, and then smooth, blast and powder coat these. That would fix the bore so it wouldn't corrode, and would hide the bumps and bruises on them.

The much more expensive solution would be to replace the nuts & washer as well as the lockouts.  That's looking like several hundred dollars so I'm leaning to the repair & powder coat approach.  Thoughts?

[Gary Lewis]

Well, I just figured out what I have and how I'm going to fix it/them.  Called Torque King 4x4 and talked to Roy.  I explained what I have and he explained that the '95 from which the axle came originally had automatic locking hubs.  He knows this because that's the only thing that came with the rounded-hex nut and c-clip retainer.  So, since my hubs are manual-locking ones then someone has pulled the auto hubs and bolted on the manuals.

However, according to Roy that is a ticking time bomb and 9 times out of 10 it goes off.  That's because the auto hubs held the keeper in, but the manual hubs don't.  So the c-clip falls out and the driver's side nut tightens up and the bearings seize, and the passenger's side unscrews and the hub falls off.

As for how the auto hubs work, we surmised that the weird outer part of the nut serves as a clutch or synchro against the hub, and spins something in the hub to cause it to engage.  And that fits with the description in the '95 shop manual:

The TouchDrive 4x4 system allows the driver to engage four-wheel drive at the touch of a button instead of pulling a shift lever. This button is connected to an electronic control module which controls the functions necessary to engage the transfer case.

When the 4x4 button is depressed, the electronic control module energizes the electronic clutch coil in the transfer case. This accelerates the front axle shafts up to the same speed as the front wheels. As the axle shafts begin to rotate, they engage the automatic hub locks located at each wheel end. After approximately 5 seconds, the transfer case clutch coil turns off. A stepper motor located on the back of the transfer case then locks up the transfer case via a camming mechanism and a locking collar. The entire sequence takes only a few seconds.

To disengage the transfer case, again depress the 4x4 button. This will unlock the transfer case but the automatic hubs will remain locked. To unlock the hubs, back up the vehicle for at least 10 feet, then continue in the original direction. Because the front axle has been disengaged from the transfer case, the hubs will remain unlocked.

So I have yet another couple parts to clean up, blast, and powder coat.

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

Well, I just figured out what I have and how I'm going to fix it/them.  Called Torque King 4x4 and talked to Roy.  I explained what I have and he explained that the '95 from which the axle came originally had automatic locking hubs.  He knows this because that's the only thing that came with the rounded-hex nut and c-clip retainer.  So, since my hubs are manual-locking ones then someone has pulled the auto hubs and bolted on the manuals.

However, according to Roy that is a ticking time bomb and 9 times out of 10 it goes off.  That's because the auto hubs held the keeper in, but the manual hubs don't.  So the c-clip falls out and the driver's side nut tightens up and the bearings seize, and the passenger's side unscrews and the hub falls off....

So are you going to get the standard spindle nuts and put those on in place of the rounded hex nut and c-clip retainer to use with your manual hubs?

[salans7]

Gary Lewis wrote

Thanks!  Your axle is a '90?

It's a 95+ but I have no way of knowing the exact year since I bought it from somebody who had 10 of them and the axle tag is gone.

[Gary Lewis]

Yep. I ordered the nuts and special washers as well as the o-rings from Torque King 4x4. I’ll sand/file the dings out of the hubs, media-blast them, and then powder coat them Safety Red. 🤪

[Gary Lewis]

Shaun - Just check to make sure that you have the right nuts on yours. Not the rounded-hex ones with the tapered shoulder on them.

[salans7]

Gary Lewis wrote

Shaun - Just check to make sure that you have the right nuts on yours. Not the rounded-hex ones with the tapered shoulder on them.

Mine have already been converted, luckily.

[Gary Lewis]

Good!  👍

[salans7]

Here's an issue though. You and I have the same axle shafts, but check out this image from the Monobeam section...



Did you have that snap ring? Because I didn't, and the end of my axle shaft doesn't have a groove for a snap ring.

Is the outer lock ring sufficient for retention of a manual lock hub setup?

[Steve83]

salans7 wrote

Is the outer lock ring sufficient for retention of a manual lock hub setup?

The outer ring is the primary thing that holds the lock body in the hub.  The one on the axle stub shaft is what holds the U-joint in-line between the ball joints/king pins.  AFAIK, all stubs have an outer groove, but most with auto hub locks use a different snap ring at the inboard end of the splines to retain the stub & keep the U-joint in-line.  It's the "C" at the bottom center of this pic:

[Gary Lewis]

Shaun - I think you are looking at the wrong FSM.    Look at the one on the tab labeled Ball Joint, which has the '95 FSM, and on Page 2 you'll see this illustration which shows no snap ring.  And also note that it shows the outer and inner lock nuts and lock washer, but not the wonky rounded-hex nut and c-clip.  (Now you see why I'm )




And my stub doesn't have a groove for a snap ring:

[Nothing Special]

Steve83 wrote

The outer ring is the primary thing that holds the lock body in the hub.  The one on the axle stub shaft is what holds the U-joint in-line between the ball joints/king pins....

The conversation about this snap ring comes up relatively frequently on all of the Ford boards I'm on.  The consensus always comes down to what Steve said here.  It also always boils down to the snap ring on the stub shaft not really being necessary.

[Gary Lewis]

Nothing Special wrote

The conversation about this snap ring comes up relatively frequently on all of the Ford boards I'm on.  The consensus always comes down to what Steve said here.  It also always boils down to the snap ring on the stub shaft not really being necessary.

Since Ford, or maybe Dana, eliminated it some time between '86 and '95 I guess that proves it isn't necessary.  

[salans7]

Gary Lewis wrote

Shaun - I think you are looking at the wrong FSM.    Look at the one on the tab labeled Ball Joint, which has the '95 FSM, and on Page 2 you'll see this illustration which shows no snap ring.  And also note that it shows the outer and inner lock nuts and lock washer, but not the wonky rounded-hex nut and c-clip.  (Now you see why I'm )

And my stub doesn't have a groove for a snap ring:

95-97 FSM makes no difference here, since my axle has been converted to an older style setup that would have the snap ring according to the older FSM's. My question was whether that snap ring is necessary on a manual lockout setup since it isn't there on the auto due to the reasons provided by Steve.

The illustration you provided is misleading in this situation since although it shows the axle shaft, it does not show the lockout end of the hub which is where this snap ring would be located. For that we need section 5-03C which AFAIK is not posted in the Tech section as of yet. I think that section is what will clear up your confusion on the auto VS manual hubs for the 95-97 trucks because it should show your funky auto spindle nut.

But Steve basically answered my question, since the large outer lock ring is what really keeps the lockout body in the hub.

[Gary Lewis]

I posted the lockout illustrations earlier, but they didn't have the part list. So let me do that again, with the parts list.

Having said that, mine won't match the after March of '95 illustration. But it will match the Torque King 4x4 illustration.

Here's the early, prior to March '95, illustration and it includes the snap ring:

[salans7]

Well that's frustrating, but at least Torque King had a useful diagram.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, it is frustrating.  I ordered the '95 FSM to have the official word on the axle, only to find out that mine doesn't match what it says.  

But I was pleasantly surprised when I talked to the people at Torque King.  They really knew what they were talking about and had the parts I needed available.  The o-rings, the nuts, the washers, the socket, etc.  And while their prices may be a bit higher than other places I've seen, I'm happy to pay it for the consulting.