Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, that's a quorum, and all seem in favor.  (Jim - I take your comments as in favor.  Right?)

Next, I need to think through the carburetion.  Brandon/Bruno2 has the 750 Eddy on the shelf in a zip lock bag and I can borrow it, or maybe even buy it back.  But I think he bought it for future use, and next fall/winter might be future enough for him.

However, I have the 750 CFM Street Demon on the shelf.  It was used to break in Dad's engine on Tim's dyno, and it worked well.  In fact, Tim said there was only a very few HP diff between it and the 750 Holley they normally run on the dyno, and he liked the carb.

I could borrow the Eddy and create a baseline with it, knowing it worked well on the previous engine.  And then go for the Street Demon and see what difference it makes.

Thoughts?

[grumpin]

I’m in on two phases, great point about working out the bugs before phase 2.

The Holley. I’ve never had one before this truck, I really like them. If you remember I put a new classic Holley 600 CFM with the electric choke to replace my OEM Holley. Bumped the jets down two for the altitude here. Very easy to do.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Dane.  But, of all the carbs in the world, a VV is at the bottom of my list and a Holley is the next notch up. The VV is at the bottom because the only thing I know about it is that they aren't "normal".  Even back in their day they weren't understood.

As for the Holleys, anything that holds fuel in with gaskets or fabric doesn't seem like a good idea to me.  I've had Holleys and while they do great for full-throttle acceleration they aren't the easiest to maintain.  Mine have leaked at the gaskets and accelerator pump, and suffered blown power valves.

So things like the Q-Jet and carbs derived from Carters are my pick since they hold fuel in with metal.  And Edelbrocks are basically Carters.  But the Street Demon is a fairly new carb that follows in that vein.  However, the one I have has a polymer bowl that is intended to keep the fuel cool.  And that's derived from the Thermoquad.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, the VV is sort of like English Carburettors, a constant depression design (not the condition of the poor bloke working on them). The idea being that the depression (vacuum) across the venturii and nozzle are the same no matter how much air is being pulled through. The non-feedback versions are actually pretty simple, and if you have a tool that can set them for the correct mixture running can deliver amazing fuel economy.

Try 25 mpg with a 312, BW T85 w/od and a 3.70 rear in a 1958 F100, still had plenty of power.

[Gary Lewis]

Dane - I hope my response wasn't too derogatory on Holleys.  A lot of people like them.  But my experience hasn't been good.

Bill - I've never worked on a VV, in spite of owning one.  However, I've worked on plenty of carbs with the same design, so I know the design is sound.  And I assume it is just the unfamiliarity that turned others off.

Anyway, let me pose a question to y'all: Should I start Big Blue up for breaking in the cam on the Eddy that was on him, and then go to the Street Demon?  Or just go for the Street Demon?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Just go for the Street Demon

[grumpin]

Gary Lewis wrote

Dane - I hope my response wasn't too derogatory on Holleys.  A lot of people like them.  But my experience hasn't been good.

Bill - I've never worked on a VV, in spite of owning one.  However, I've worked on plenty of carbs with the same design, so I know the design is sound.  And I assume it is just the unfamiliarity that turned others off.

Anyway, let me pose a question to y'all: Should I start Big Blue up for breaking in the cam on the Eddy that was on him, and then go to the Street Demon?  Or just go for the Street Demon?

Nope. Understood. I had been around GM Quadrajets and mostly Carters, which are now Edelbrock I believe.

I’ve had problems with Carters, wasn’t sure about this Holley. But went the easy route with the linkage, and glad I did.

It has responded great in all aspects of operation.

[85lebaront2]

I would say the Edlebrock, you know it is reasonably close. I'm thinking I might want to do the same thing on Darth's new engine, but I got rid of all my older stuff (DS-II distributor and Holley 4180). I do have a 735 cfm Holley I need to rebuild, but still won't have an ignition system.

Sounds like a good reason for a PnP run.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, the Eddy is reasonably close.

As for ignition, that's one reason I still have the 460 I pulled out of Big Blue.  It has the distributor, coil, wires, etc.  However, the curve in the dizzy is too aggressive as I had pinging under load.  I'm assuming that it is set up for EGR, which I'm not going to run.

I've emailed Scotty asking about curving the dizzy, so we shall see.  But do you have a recommendation?

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

Yes, the Eddy is reasonably close.

As for ignition, that's one reason I still have the 460 I pulled out of Big Blue.  It has the distributor, coil, wires, etc.  However, the curve in the dizzy is too aggressive as I had pinging under load.  I'm assuming that it is set up for EGR, which I'm not going to run.

I've emailed Scotty asking about curving the dizzy, so we shall see.  But do you have a recommendation?

My thought:  KISS  (keep it simple... sir).

I'm in favor of the two step approach.  But with the carb(s), keep it 2 steps, don't add a third.  Whichever carb you put on it first, keep it for the rest of the summer.  Or another way to look sat it if you prefer is whichever carb you want to keep on it for the summer, put on it first.

On the ignition, if it were me I'd probably just retard the base timing a bit and maybe run high octane for the summer rather than mess with recurving a distributor that will only be used the one year.

That said, it's my recommendation.  But I won't be offended if you don't follow it.

[85lebaront2]

Under the plate the DS-II pickup is on there are two spring tabs and a pair of weights, one spring is small the other large. The small spring is active from start all the way up, the large spring comes in at higher rpm. If the pinging was at low to mid rpm, then the small spring possibly needs more tension, but it could be that the large spring is coming into play too late.

If you pull the reluctor off and remove the plate, there are two slots in the advance cam with xx numbers for the degrees advance, if it is at the larger value, remove the felt and the snap ring, then with the springs unhooked the advance cam can be pulled up and turned around. Just put the springs back in the same spot in relation to the bottom portion so the advance curve rate won't be changed.

It will be better to run a conservative advance with the higher compression initially, static timing procedure if I remember correctly is spelled out in the manual.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I appreciate the input.  But....  I'm hoping to drive this thing quite a bit before the EFI conversion, maybe even to Ouray, and just retarding the initial timing seems like it wouldn't optimize things.  And running higher octane fuel will add to what is surely a fairly high fuel cost.

And, I'd like to use this as a test.  On the old engine I had planned to test the MPG of the 750 Eddy vs the 600, and then the 750 Street Demon, but I pulled it out before I got there.  So I'm not at all afraid of swapping carbs once I've run a baseline.  And that would give me a good comparison to EFI, which I'd like to do.

Bill - Thanks.  I've done some tuning on Ford dizzys, and was appalled at how hard it is vs doing it on a Chevy.  But it is still doable.

However, Scott will tune it for $110, and since he knows exactly what's in the engine, meaning pistons, cam, and heads, I'm considering having him do it.  He would know exactly what curve to dial in, and if I do it I'll have to guess.

And, he has the adapter to put the carb on the lower plenum, and that includes brass plugs for the injector ports, so I'm thinking of doing that as well.  But I don't have a price on that yet.

[Gary Lewis]

First, an update on the headers.  I called L&L to see what the status is of the headers.  They said "They should be shipped by mid to late next week."  I said "That's basically why I was told two weeks ago.  Let's put it this way: If they aren't shipped by next Friday just cancel the order and I'll buy elsewhere."  

But, on a positive note, I got the cabling re-routed and got most things connected in and around the steering column.  Scott's description as well as the video he sent helped.  And after I was done I stumbled on this:



And as I was trying to get the stop lamp switch on I came up with this.  But I don't fully understand how the stop lamp switch works.  It appears that when the brake pedal moves the switch tries to rotate on the pin and since the end of the push rod is square the rotation pushes the actuator in the switch and closes it.  Right?




Anyway, here's a pic of the steering column in, and you can see how I have it supported with a ratchet strap so I can reach in above it.  That was key as otherwise I couldn't get my hands in to do anything.





And here's how  the seam sealer turned out on the firewall:

[kramttocs]

Nice progress today. Were the cables hung up on something?

I wondered the same about the brake switch when I was installing it a few weeks ago. Everything is moving together so how is the contact made? The flat part in combination with the rotation makes sense.

Also, I saw your email today. I was going to take a better video this afternoon since I had the day off and was working on the truck but forgot. I think a better video could be made for public viewing than my rambling one  :).
If one could take a video with the cluster not installed it should show people a better view from up top in combination with underneath.
That diagram actually does do a good job showing it though.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, the cables were hung up on the top of the clutch lever.  But, I had them through the hole in the top of the bracket and not the one in front of that one.  So even after I got the cables free they didn't want to reach.  And the inside of that area is full of sharp corners.  My hands aren't happy.

I have the cluster out, so why don't I take pics.  I think I can do a good job, but we'll see.

As for how the switch works, I think I'll bolt a spare vacuum booster to a spare pedal assembly, install a switch, and give it a try.  

One problem that I had, and the diagram helped solve, was C305 and C305A.  Turns out that w/o speed control the turn signal/horn pad wires connect right into the u-shaped connector above the column - meaning C305 male to C305 female.  But with speed control C305A male and female make up a jumper that also takes signals and power to the speed control amplifier.  And that's not really shown very explicitly in the EVTM section on the turn signal switch.  I saw it on the speed control page and then went back to the turn signal page and realized it is there - if you look for it.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, let's see if this helps understand the brake switch:

[kramttocs]

Well done. Pretty simple design after all.

[salans7]

I was pretty sure that's how it works, and it's the same on my 2003 Ranger. But I didn't want to post without checking my trucks first.

[85lebaront2]

It is simple and no adjustment is required unlike some others (GM and Chrysler).

[Gary Lewis]

You guys knew, but I sure didn't.  Do now.  

Anyway, I got what I intended to do done, and then some.  The plan was to get the switches hooked up, inc the clutch and brake switches, and then the wiring tucked up and tied.  I got that done, but as I was doing it I realized that the speed control wiring was right there, and I knew it had been hacked.  Then I realized that there was no vacuum dump hose for the speed control.  

So it was time to pull out the speed control wiring and install some that I had in the attic.  Got the old out, and there wasn't much of it, and then the new in and fed through the firewall.  In fact, I not only got the amplifier put back where it belongs but I installed the servo under the hood and connected it up.

Then I thought I'd put the instrument cluster back in, but as I was doing that I remembered that I don't like the blue LED's.  So it was time to install the White ones I got from HiPo Parts.  That done I tested and all of them worked, which was strange 'cause probability says that half should be in backwards.  On a whim I reversed the leads and sure enough, all of them worked that way as well.  WOW!  I think I can safely recommend these LED's, but I'll have to wait until dark some day to get a good pic of what the gauges look like.

But before I install the cluster I need to remember to install the voltmeter that Rocketman converted.  So it is not quite ready to go back in, but soon.

Also, in the pic you can see a bit of the tranny cover.  I was SURE I had the cover that I had in Dad's truck, which is the tall one I got from Shaun years ago, and it is cut for the ZF as well as a t-case shifter.  But so far the only tall one I've found is for a 2WD auto - no holes.  May have to go looking for another tall cover.  



And, it is about time to order the sound deadening material 'cause I think the next steps will be to kill the rust on the floor and then add the sound deadening.  Then I can add the carpet and seat and it'll start looking like a truck.  So, what sound deadening material do you'se guys recommend?