Aluminum Radiator conundrum-

[ratdude747]

Seems that Bullnose radiators and I don't get along.

Context:

https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Aluminum-Radiators-that-aren-t-junk-td129918.html
https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/1985-1997-Radiator-for-a-4-9L-td142593.html

The replacement radiator I ordered in the second thread has, after only a few months, developed the same leak condition the one it replaced under warranty (first thread). Seeping about 4-6oz of coolant out the passenger side tank to fin joint every drive cycle.

The issue is (per the second thread) that I ordered through Jegs to get around a supply issue, but Jegs is strict on their warranty process (send in old one, wait for it to come in stock, then you get another a long time after). Unlike Champion themselves who just verify the fault and send a replacement (but only if you are a direct customer).

Do I do like last time and just run it with the leak until I'm at a point I can afford to have the truck down for several months and then go through the mess again... or do I try to fix what I have (I don't know of a better rad maker, sadly)... as much as I hate to go there, perhaps some form of stop leak?

FWIW I ran the provided rad cap instead of a lever-lock cap this time, just in case the latter was overpressurizing the system (the former's spring is heavier I noticed).

[Gary Lewis]

BUMMER!!  I hate that - both for you and me as I'm also running a Champion and had that problem on the first one.  Luckily so far the 2nd one has held.

But I don't know what to recommend.  Any chance of finding an old but useable one locally to get you by until a new one gets in?

[ratdude747]

Based on last time, somewhere between "no" and "nope".

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

BUMMER!!  I hate that - both for you and me as I'm also running a Champion and had that problem on the first one.  Luckily so far the 2nd one has held.

But I don't know what to recommend?

 How about not using something that fails all the time?

Based on the experience of you two I would never buy or recommend Champion, even to someone I disliked. 🤷‍♂️

Obviously they can't get their  together and produce a product that is fit for purpose, and both of you have told them there's a problem.

There's probably a billion ICE vehicles on the road. None of them would have made it past a 12 month 12k mile warranty.
It's obvious that building a radiator in a factory, that lasts has been a solved problem for 100 years.

I haven't ever changed a leaking radiator, except because a water pump failed and the fan took it out.
I still have the one from "the giving truck" hanging on the wall of the barn for -when-
Stop buying hype fueled garbage that doesn't work.

[ratdude747]

I've heard aftermarket plastic tank radiators are very failure-prone and welded aluminum is always the way to go. And if I want a used Ford one, it'd need to be shipped a very long way (Arizona is the closest I found on eBay ).

Been through two different aluminum raditator brands... The issue is that Jegs's return policy doesn't go well with champion's limited output. At least they have a lifetime warranty... unlike the Liland global one I originally tried (and still have in my scrap aluminum pile- sadly, it got smashed and isn't usable without a lot of fin rework and still had a bad leak. ).

I have had generic welded aluminum radiators work out. The one in my 1995 Ranger (4.0) was an eBay closeout find... several years and (knock on wood) no issues.

Short of generic custom radiators, who else makes them? LMC has them (1987-1997 4.9L 2 row) for $200 but they're backordered (and I've honestly never had good luck with any LMC part, sorry). Supposedly NPD has vista-pro brass 1980-84 radiators (which I still have the parts to mount up)... for $450  (not in budget!!!!!!)  but nothing for the later application I redid the core support to accept. Dennis carpenter doesn't sell radiators. And Rockauto has Liland Global (which is where I started, when rebuilding after smacking Bambi). I am seeing supposed 3-row (probably 2 row) units on eBay for around $180... similar to what the Ranger one was (looks the same as liland global) but at "full" price.

Lots of options... none are good?

[grumpin]

I've had two Champion radiators and they never leaked.

This is a bummer.

I'd probably buy a plastic tank radiator and wait for warranty on the aluminum one. Then you'd have a spare.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I guess I'm glad that I've never heard of all these damn problems with radiators, and have only had to replace mine once, because the fan killed (not a radiator 'failure')

I sure do know about heater cores though!!!

We're fortunate enough to still have a automotive radiator and A/C shop locally.
They record radiators for big trucks and heavy equipment.
Rickey pressure tests and dates every radiator or heater core that he lets out the door.

[mat in tn]

interesting subject about. I just last week noticed a small leak steaming from the aluminum side if my plastic tanked rad that I put in over 20 years ago. so now am looking for one.  most likely going with a Murray or spectra depending on availability. havent looked yet.

[ratdude747]

I only had to replace the original because I nuked it with a deer (puked coolant everywhere!). I have heard of brass radiators developing pinholes though!

[ArdWrknTrk]

And you think aluminum is less prone to corrosion than brass?
Keep the coolant changed every 5 years and if your water is hard use distilled.

I see brass and bronze all over vintage yachts and powerboats.
Never aluminum, even though it was everywhere leading up to WWII

Chrome, because chrome oxide is self healing and creates a shell.
But shiny surfaces don't shed heat.
That's why any good aluminum radiator is anodized black.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Matt, have you considered a pair of locking pliers to pinch the 20 yo gasket tighter into the head tank?

[mat in tn]

yes, I have done that trick before, but this one is not coming through the tank to core gasket. it's coming through the area that looks to be epoxied.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Because of a cracked seam/weld, or did something drill a hole in it?

[mat in tn]

well, it has not been messed with in over 20 years. and as I have not even pulled the shroud back, I'm not certain of much more than it was coming out through the core under the shroud. too many projects being juggled at this time. is not low and it's not freezing so I pulled it to the side to do the next trans.  three trans and five v8s in line right now. trying to get three blocks to machine shop before I take five days to go to Maine. then back to assembly. actually, busier than I want to be. the only block currently there is a sbc getting ready for the 383 stroker build.

[viven44]

Speaking of galvanic corrosion between engine block (iron) and the radiator, Aluminum should fare better than Brass or copper. As you said, fresh coolant should prevent this so it probably doesn't matter on a well maintained vehicle.

Speaking of environmental corrosion, I agree aluminum is probably worse vs copper or brass/bronze.

His issue appears to be a fatigue crack related failure though from all the heating and cooling cycles. Aluminum is just about the worst metal when it comes to accumulating "plastic deformation". Copper or Brass will be significantly more robust in that department.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Up here the mag chloride brine the DOT puts on the road will eat the fins right out of the heat exchanger.

Plastic deformation is literally the ability if a metal to yield without failure, whereas elastic deformation is the ability to flex or otherwise shift, and return to normal (prior) state.
Plastic deformation does not equal failure, unless the point is rigidity. (In which case they should me using magnesium/beryllium or something stiff like that)

While aluminum can work harden and become brittle, proper choice of alloy, filler and annealing after welding would virtually eliminate that possibility.

You are suggesting that Champion uses crap material and has poor process control. (which may be the case. I've never had to deal with one)
But they should stop blowing their own horn, if they have this sort of failure rate, are informed of it, don't do anything about it, and send out another batch that are just as bad as they know the first ones are/were.

[viven44]

A picture of “passenger side tank to fin joint” would help… looks to be a weld… what could go wrong in process controls on a weld  

Copper is vastly superior to aluminum on creep resistance. Aluminum is just not a good material to be temperature cycled unless it’s adequately designed.

I’m running the original radiators on all the vehicles I have. Probably good to start hoarding these when I find parts ruins.

I know the dentside radiator is copper. Is the bullnose factory radiator copper ? Haven’t paid attention.

[ArdWrknTrk]

But aluminum is a better heat sink than brass.

If we wanted to get stupid we would make them of silver!

[ratdude747]

Where the fin tubes are crimped and sealed to/in the tank end. Not a weld location as far as I know... same construction as a plastic tanked radiator.

M 1984 radiator was black painted brass... I think the 1985-1986 was as well (based on pics I've seen) despite the newer mounting which was used on plastic tanked 1987+ radiators.

[85lebaront2]

Darth's was/is aluminum with crimped on plastic tanks.