87 460 Carb'ed Towing Build

[85lebaront2]

Several things (a) if you are planning on pulling the engine, do it, a lot of what you want to do becomes a lot easier with it out. (b) do not try to support that beast on one of the harbor freight stands, it is long and heavy so has a lot of leverage on that skimpy Chinese upright post. (c) remove the hood if you pull the engine.

Now onto some other items. You can get the pan off without completely removing the engine, but it takes some doing. If you aren't draining the cooling system at this time, take the upper radiator mounting bolts out but leave the fan and fan shroud in place. when the engine is lifted they will come up with it. The exhaust pipes have to come off, originally they had joints in them where on a short wheelbase truck the muffler attached to the exhaust pipes, on longer wheelbase trucks like Darth, there were extensions, in Darth's case 35" long to connect the system together.

Once you have the preliminaries done you need to remove the 4 large nuts holding the mounts to the perches. After that, find a suitable jack and block to put under the balancer and start lifting. Raise the engine until it comes up against the floor and firewall. With a manual transmission you will probably want to remove the tunnel cover so you can get the engine high enough and not damage anything. Once you have it up as far as it will go, find some decent size wood blocks and place them between the exhaust manifolds and frame so you can remove the motor mounts from the adapter plates.

Now you are ready to tackle the pan. Remove the dipstick tube (5/8" gland nut at the pan and a 9/16" nut on one of the exhaust manifold studs. Remove the bolts holding the pan on and lower it until it stops between the oil pump and frame. Reach over the edge of the pan and remove the nut from the main cap stud that holds the pickup tube. Remove the two bolts holding the oil pump and lower it into the pan. You should now be able to get the pan out, if it hasn't already attacked you.

As most manuals say "reassembly is the reverse of disassembly".

Here is a picture showing how the mounts sit installed on the engine:


Note the heat shield on the left side, it is rather critical to the motor mount lasting as the manifolds get red hot on the highway.

[ford4wd08]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'll snap some pictures of the engine bay and all tonight so you can see what I'm working with.

[ford4wd08]

Here are a couple of pictures. Minus the carb











Looks like the majority of the small vaccum lines are long gone.

I think the rear main seal is dumping oil.

What is the best way to set this thing up? Looks like it had two air pumps that are long gone. I'm not opposed to a new intake manifold to help clean things up a bit. Just trying to think what is the best way to make this a good running engine without the emissions that Ford made it with.

[ArdWrknTrk]

It's evident that the Thermactor logs and spiders have been cut away from the valve covers and exhaust manifolds.
If you don't have emissions inspections where you live I'd suggest an Edelbrock non-egr Performer (or RPM) intake.
That will take care of the problematic EGR spacer to intake gasket

Scott and I are both using the L&L high *alternator mount to eliminate the big dual air pump bracket.
I would also suggest ditching your fire prone second generation alternator for the later 3G. (I may have a new-ish one on the shelf...)

If you are intent on pulling the engine we can discuss blocking off the A.I.R. crossover at the back of the heads.

You'll still need vacuum for PCV, brake booster, distributor and climate control.

I could take a pic of my engine bay later if you want a look.

[Gary Lewis]

It looks like that engine has been leaking a lot of oil for a long time.  And the only way I can see getting the engine compartment clean is to pull the engine and then go to town cleaning the engine compartment with degreaser and elbow grease.

With the engine out and on a stand you can clean it - assuming it passes a leak-down test well enough not to need rebuilding.

It is interesting that the master cylinder has been changed out for the later model one - which I think it a big improvement.

As for the intake manifold, the factory unit isn't a bad design.  So while you can replace it I doubt you'll notice much difference.  However it would make the engine slightly less obese.  

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - I think you meant alternator rather than distributor mount.

And I forgot about the EGR spacer, so I agree that the Edelbrock intake is a good idea.

Want me to take a pic of my engine bay?  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, for 1987 all Ford pickups use the later aluminium w/ plastic reservoir design.

The factory intake/EGR gasket has an amazing propensity to burn through on the passenger side, destroying the entire bundle of factory color coded vacuum lines (😠AMHIK!!!!)

And you DO lose about 65# off the top of the engine.
It's a LOT easier to get an aluminum intake back on by yourself!  (but note that you must NOT use a turkey pan intake gasket with an aluminum intake)
And I suggest using no China Wall gaskets either. Just Ultra Gray -or-The Right Stuff.
Other RTV are too prone to failure.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks.   Fixed!  

I doubt a pic of Big Blue's engine bay would be much help to him...  

With a regular Performer I found I still needed a 1" spacer to get the throttle cable to line up and the air cleaner to clear the front of the engine.
I don't think the RPM will help any nearly stock 460 run better, but it might hold the carb high enough for proper fitment.

[Gary Lewis]

The later master cylinder is a good upgrade, all the way around.  Glad Ford made that change.

As for the intake, I really wouldn't want to put one on under the hood, much less the cast iron one.  I don't like leaks on the China walls, so want to install an intake while the engine is on the stand.  And I fully agree on using Ultra Gray or The Right Stuff, but would also use studs to ensure the thing goes down where it is supposed to be.

[ford4wd08]

Picture of your engine bay would be nice. No emissions for me in East TN.

Something to work towards.

I agree Gary. It is really time to clean this thing up so it doesn't go up in flames....

I'm tempted to year it down for a rebuild anyhow. If I can find a machine shop that is local and I can trust, I could just do it right and be done with it. Let them assemble the short block and do a 3 angle valve job and I can do the rest of the assembly. But I can start with compression and leak down. Maybe it just needs resealing and cleaning.  

I'm not afraid to take my time and do it right. Took me almost 3 years on the bronco.

My bronco 2 was converted from TFI to duraspark and I was able to loose the feedback carb and all the emissions that don't work with it. That made all the difference in the way this thing runs.

As far as the brakes they have been abused. We used to load round bales of hay on the back and put it in reverse speed up and slam on the brakes to kick them off in the pasture to feed cows.

[ArdWrknTrk]

With 80... or 180k that truck is just broken in, as long as it got regular oil changes.

Here's what I've got:













You can see the simple alternator bracket, Saginaw steering pump (no A/C) and the updated steering shaft.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Sorry, I failed to orient my pics for the forum..

My first engine made it to 280k and spun a bearing on a frigid February morning.
This Remanufactured longblock has been rolling along since 2008.

[ford4wd08]

Thanks for the pictures. I will definitely have AC!

I don't know about the regular oil changes.... It leaks a lot. Could be just add a quart and go, but maybe that will just cause sludge that can be cleaned out.

Can you give me more info on the alternator swap, steering shaft upgrade, and the new bracket to eliminate the dual air pumps?

Looks like I need to order a leak down kit and compression tester.

[ford4wd08]

Are you running a mechanical fuel pump?

I have the hot fuel option with an electric pump on my rig, I assume because of the hot summers and AC.

Also, what is on the air cleaner on the driver's side that has a vacuum line hooked to it? I have the same air cleaner, but you guessed it, it's not hooked up.

[Gary Lewis]

My experience is that it is really hard to find a reputable machine shop to build engines.  Here in the Tulsa area friends have dropped engines at shops and had to pick them up years later when nothing had been done.  And I took Dad's engine to a shop here and they didn't build it the way I told them to, and when I send the whole mess to Tim Meyer he had to done some rework.

So when I needed a new engine for Big Blue I turned to Scotty, The Mad Porter.  I had the heads done locally and bought a short block from Scotty, but if I had to do it over again I'd have gone for a long block.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I use high detergent diesel oil and Motorcraft filters.
The last time I had a valve cover off there were no deposits at all.
My oil is always black as night, but there is no sludge even with 5k OCI.

The alternator bracket comes from L&L (purveyors of 460 goodness)
Gary has a set of their headers.
It's not cheap, but I tried to use pre-emission mounts from 429 cars and it sat so low the alternator was in the crossmember. (pre '80 cars and trucks used front sump oil pans and a rearward crossmember)

The Saginaw pump comes from a van and eliminates the characteristic Ford groan.
The steering shaft was my own concoction after I changed the rag joint at the steering box for the second time.
Having a universal joint instead of a scrap of greasy rubber has definitely tightened things up.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, my truck came with a mechanical pump.
I am quite familiar with the Hot Fuel Handling system though.  

The scoop on the driver's side opens up under full throttle (low vacuum) to admit more air when the snorkel may be too restrictive.
Vacuum is routed through that green metering valve.

[ford4wd08]

I've seen Scotty on the 460ford forum.

I'll just have to weigh options.

Maybe I won't have to resort to a rebuild but just reseal and refresh. A new timing set will help a lot too.

I'll let the test results guide me.

[Gary Lewis]

As for replacing your 2G alternator, aka "fire starter", with a 3G go to the pages at Documentation/Electrical/3G or the 3G In Development page.  The latter speaks to the 2G changeout directly.

[ford4wd08]

Is this the bracket you are running?

https://www.landlproducts.com/details.aspx?c=0&sc=0&ItemID=1051