460 is running rich on Edelbrock 1411

[viven44]

Thank you Bill,

I am leaving everything else at stock at the moment as I am unable to tell whether I need to go rich or lean. I am going to need an A/F meter sooner than later.

As little as I know about carburetors, it is fascinating how more can be got out with small changes. I know there is more on the table!

[Gary Lewis]

Welcome to the world of easy tuning on a Carterbrock!  You changed the springs w/o pulling the cover, and you can change the rods the same way.  Just loosen the screws holding the covers and rotate them out of the way and out come the rods and springs.  No lost fuel, no gaskets to leak, and no o-ring to get pinched.  Plus, no accelerator pump nor power valve to split.  

Had a guy tell me on Facebook recently that he had a backfire through the carb which bent the metering rods on an Edelbrock.  My dad taught me not to argue with fools so I left it at that.  

[85lebaront2]

You need to do some spark plug reading, they will tell you a lot regarding mixture. The cylinders are grouped 1467 on one side of the carburetor (unless you are using either an open chamber manifold or an Offenhauser 360 manifold) and 2358 on the other side. if you pull and inspect 1 & 2 or 5 & 6 you are seeing both sides of the carburetor.

If you want to fully understand what effect various parts of a carburetor do what to the mixture, I sent Gary a file a while back, it is a Weber publication called "Technical Introduction to the Master Catalog" it explains what each part of the fuel metering and delivery circuit do: https://www.garysgaragemahal.com/weber-technical-introduction.html

[viven44]

Thanks Bill, I will print that and that will be a great read on my upcoming work trip.

I am driving the Bronco a lot more than I anticipated. It has been my daily driver, I actually don't have another vehicle at the moment with AC...

I am strongly considering getting an AFR meter to have more long-term real-time feedback... I have a couple of questions

--- I am running a single exhaust ... Can I install a single A/F meter past and muffler and close to the tail pipe and get away with it?

--- which A/F meter is recommended ?

I came across the options below... not sure if these are good or if y'all recommend another one.
 
Clamp with bung

https://www.amazon.com/GlowShift-Clamp-Wideband-Oxygen-Adapter/dp/B07KY1TJ6B/ref=pd_bxgy_d_sccl_2/144-9369957-7318344?pd_rd_w=dPpmp&content-id=amzn1.sym.04064661-569a-4d64-8aef-6cc4eefc1253&pf_rd_p=04064661-569a-4d64-8aef-6cc4eefc1253&pf_rd_r=E8ZF18J2R3DKKHY0QDZS&pd_rd_wg=KNDwW&pd_rd_r=be4d72ff-32c9-473b-8143-f42b5fdd4384&pd_rd_i=B07KY1TJ6B&psc=1

AF meter kit

https://www.amazon.com/GlowShift-Tinted-Digital-Wideband-Ratio/dp/B007GE8I7K/ref=asc_df_B007GE8I7K/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693375481814&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5559705226627597832&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026945&hvtargid=pla-889969374891&psc=1&mcid=82f6a8dec45e3219a6be44ae5eeb7e82&gad_source=1

[85lebaront2]

Do youself a big favor, stay away from Chinazon for automotive parts. First if you want a good AFR system, mine is from Innovate and is an excellent and very accurate unit. It will also integrate into my BE tuning software. https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/shop-all/measurement/wideband-air-fuel-ratio.html

[viven44]

Excellent! Let me look into that.

[viven44]

 I was reading the manual... sounds like I will need to pick an exhaust pipe either on the left or right bank close to the manifold. I guess AFR reading on one side should hopefully be indicative of health on the other side.

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/wp/content/uploads/2022/05/MTX-OL_Manual_110163.pdf

[Gary Lewis]

If you install an AFR meter do NOT put it on the accessory feed.  And preferably put it on something that is only powered when the engine is running.

I, too, have an Innovate AFR MTX-L+ and I just put the third O2 sensor on it - @ $100 each.  After the 2nd one went out I called Innovate and the guy said the problem is that I have the power going to it in accessory.  So I turn the key to accessory and the O2 sensor heats up, and then I turn the key to Start and a wave of relatively cold air comes down the pipe and cracks the ceramic in the sensor.

So I've put it on a relay pulled in by the stator output of the alternator.  That works fairly well as it only pulls in when the engine is running.  But, sometimes when I let off the throttle and the RPM's drop they drop far enough that the relay drops out and the AFR gauge goes back into heating mode.  That doesn't hurt anything and is far better than killing another sensor, but I need to move it to the fuel pump power feed.

[85lebaront2]

If you have a wye into a single pipe you can use it there. My 1990 front pipes on Darth have a short cross pipe just in front of where the catalytic converter would go. That is where the factory O2 sensor was installed.

[viven44]

Thanks Gary! Thats very useful.

And btw, where is your sensor installed ?

In my experience, the 460 exhaust is like a blow torch so it should be hot enough to be installed even at the tailpipe... I just don't want to kill the sensor by mounting it too close to the manifold

[viven44]

Yes that would be a convenient place... Unfortunately I don't. My exhaust from both banks run into a muffler which take dual 2.5 inputs and single 3 inch output.

[Gary Lewis]

The first wave of gas down the pipe is cold, according to Innovate.

And my sensor is in the forcing cone just aft of the headers.

[viven44]

Bought this so I can learn about AFB vs AVS before messing with Jim’s AVS that he sent me

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not sure why you'd need to mess with it.  

Maybe have the secondaries come on a little stronger since the Bronco is so light, but I have 4.10's so it may be just fine.  👍

As they say "suck it and see!"

[viven44]

Yes that's plan A... try as-is and go from there.. but I like to learn first

BTW, 5300 lbs doesn't feel light. This 78 with its extremely short wheel base and sitting up higher vs Big Blue 2WD feels very gangly. Big Blue 2WD is definitely more nimble at 4800 lbs and mean! I would feel confident racing any modern truck on Big Blue 2WD

[viven44]

I swapped the carburetor from Big Blue 2WD into the Bronco. They drive about the same.....

I do have the problem of things going 'flat' and the 460 in the Bronco really working hard (over 1800 rpm) when it is really hot outside. I had thought it was the carburetor... but I wonder if it could be something else (ignition coil?).

[ArdWrknTrk]

That seems really odd.  
We don't see it over mid 90's here very much.

When you say 'the engine struggles over 1800 rpm' is it missing?
Does it sputter and pop?
Ignition usually works or it doesn't.
A failing coil tends to load the cylinders and then ignite the raw fuel in the exhaust with a bang.

What's the fuel system like in your '78?
Does the pump deadhead at the carb, or is it constantly recirculating?

[viven44]

Pump deadhead, non-return/non-hot fuel handling...

No missing, popping, etc... it might be lean though like it wants more fuel

Its hard to describe but I can really hear the engine revving hard when hot and over 1800 rpm. When cold, its quieter... I don't want to say things are lean... but it certainly feels that way. I don't know want to go as far as saying it is pinging, but the oomph isn't there definitely as when things are colder.....  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hmmm. 🤔

"Revving hard" or hard to rev?
If it's not popping and stumbling I don't think you have an ignition problem.

I'd definitely consider a return regulator (like a Hot Fuel Handling system) and some reflective braid like Gary has.

[viven44]

The revs are just louder and they do less in accelerating the 5300 lbs... No problems revving.

I have the hot fuel handling system from the 86 source truck.. all of it! If I can only find a way to return the a 5/16s line back to the fuel tank, I'd be happy to use that system.

I do think I will use the reflective braid in the mean time, that should help. Its only a problem I see in stop and go situations.

Yesterday I was on the highway for a while and no problems. In fact a newer year model mall crawling / low profile wide tires sticking out F250 tried to pass me, he couldn't .. man those tires were loud, I could hear them over all the road noise in my cabin