460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

[viven44]

Decided to open a separate thread for this timing chain upgrade as this is applicable for any bullnose truck out there with a 460. I will be buying the Cloyes-C-3079X as I am getting a good deal on it from Summit. It has 3 keyways. Based on Cloyes' catalog / website this is the simplest chain that they recommended for the 460. There used to be a single keyway one but its discontinued ?

Images below with observations and questions

Here is the beast with its "antlers".. The antlers hade be shed to move on to the next step.



View of the timing cover with the water pump off. Where is the steel plate ??



Where is the steel plate ??



Bolts look like they can be reused. I will apply Loctite PST 592 thread sealer based on Jim's recommendation for that 1 bolt that threads into the coolant passage.



Harmonic balancer showing ~2ATC with crank keyway straight up. I'm sure this is just the fact that the indicator isn't mounted perfect. I'll address this at reassembly.



Gear doesn't have any nylon. Is this original to the truck ? This is a 1986 460. Did they eliminate Nylon teeth in 1986 ?



This is how much slop it has currently



I spun it around a couple more times, and here is a view with the oil slinger removed.



#1 at TDC.. view of the lifters. Hard to see.

[viven44]

Ok i've realized a backing plate is essential on the water pump, had to special order one

[mat in tn]

I'm not quoting just questioning. the engine is blue. I thought the 1986 one would be gray. the cam gear has a two-piece fuel pump eccentric. I thought it should have an electric fuel pump. is it possible that you have an earlier model replacement engine like I am dealing with?

[Ifitaintbroke]

As far as I know, the 385 series never had plastic timing gears. And yes that backing plate is absolutely necessary. Someone who had no clue what they were doing must have been in there before.

[viven44]

All those are good observations and questions, I have no idea if an eccentric belongs there or not. I do have an original 84 460 truck with electric fuel pump that i'll get into one day. Would be able to tell then.

This particular 460 has definitely been worked on before, and painted blue. It was most likely gray from factory.

And I do agree that whoever replaced the water pump had no clue. There was no thermostat. The truck didn't overheat or anything before the 460 was pulled but it wasn't Texas summer either when I tested it.

[mat in tn]

no thermostat means constant flow through the radiator. possibly poor heat in the cab.

[Ifitaintbroke]

It also means worse fuel economy and potentially faster engine wear. I'd personally never run one under 180.

[viven44]

You are probably correct.

I don't have much history. This 460 came on a wrecked truck I bought from Auction. It ran and drove well, I didn't test the heat.

It will be going into my 78 Bronco, so I'm doing all the essentials while its out. The timing chain work was not at all in the plan but I'm glad Jim mentioned about it. Such a good upgrade to improve low-rpm torque, also a great chance to re-do what was not done properly before such as adding this water pump backing plate.

[viven44]

I always run a 180 on my trucks. In Texas, my temp reading on the hottest days is around 205F at the thermostat (measured with a temp gun). In winter, I'm always around 185 or so. I've considered 195F which is OEM, not sure if that will change summer time maximums, i've always though it wouldn't matter which thermostat I use in Texas summer but maybe i'm wrong.

[Ifitaintbroke]

I currently run a 180, but I wouldn't
 go below that. Engine wear increases greatly as running temp decreases. I saw a graph on that once and it was shocking. Below 160 and your asking for serious trouble.

[mat in tn]

if more cooling is needed then a better radiator is the answer not a lower temp t stat. that may give a little grace period, but a better cooled reserve is the thing to do. don't discount a good flowing heater core either.

[Ifitaintbroke]

Yep. I've had people buy cooler thermostats because their vehicle is overheating. Not going to work...

[ArdWrknTrk]

The plate looks like it is glued on right there!
If it's pitted buy the FRPP backing plate for ~$35.

I already told you, use the ∆ mark and you'll be fine.
I'm not really sure why you didn't just get one of the other chains we discussed..

[viven44]

Aligned on that. On the small blocks (including 351m) i've had some relief by upgrading the fan-clutch to heavy duty but on the 460s, heavy duty is standard so the only knob available appears to be the radiator.

[ArdWrknTrk]

A thermostat is there to warm up the engine to operating temperature.
It has zero effect once fully open.

Make sure your shroud fits well.
Use the stock fan & clutch.

I have walked this path many, many times.
(Not w/ my truck, but with others that had "better ideas")

Ford has a huge and professional engineering department.
They do extensive testing in all conditions.
The 460 was their workhorse engine from the '70's until '97...

[ArdWrknTrk]

You are wrong.
I have pictures to prove it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Not to mention that the engine components haven't reached their designed tolerances.

Everything is either loose or tight, depending.

[Ifitaintbroke]

Wow. I thought I knew most of the history of these motors. F600 429 maybe?

[ArdWrknTrk]

All 460's came with an eccentric.
Hot Fuel trucks have a block off plate on the timing case.

[Ifitaintbroke]

Jim, I think you're looking at the pic wrong. In middle of the picture, that large hole should be cover by the plate, if it were there. Pic is at weird angle so that makes it difficult. And I would like to see what a plastic 460 timing gear looks like. And what in the world was it used in?