1980 F350 4X4 C6 Project

[Atlas75]

So it is a Dana 61.  I thought it might have been but I wasn't sure until now.  Thanks Jim!

[ArdWrknTrk]

There are tables you can use to decode the BOM, but I don't know them well enough to do it off the top of my head.

Do you know what you're going to do with your axle now?

[Atlas75]

I am currently disassembling the passenger side to figure out why the brakes won't apply on that side.  Depending on what I find, I may need any number of parts so knowing the axel model will help in that endeavor.

On a side note, I ordered the 2 9/16 socket from Amazon yesterday because they advertised delivery on Sunday.  I have yet to see it.

[Atlas75]

Well..Amazon never did deliver my socket. . Instead they sent me an email saying they were cancelling my order due to a shipping error.  So I started calling around and I found one at Arnold’s Motor Supply.  I made the purchase and I’m kinda glad I did.  The socket they had looked to be of heavier construction than the one I found on Amazon.

Of course I needed to try it out as soon as I got home.  It fit perfectly and the nut was off in no time.  I pulled out the outer bearing and set it aside.  Then I removed the drum and this is what greeted me.


Two broken springs and a whole lotta dust!!  The shoes still look like they have life though.

I had my daughter watch while I gently pressed on the brake and she said the shoe’s didn’t move.  So I pressed harder and harder and harder and finally she said it moved a little bit…and then only the front shoe moved.  I’m guessing the wheel cylinder is shot.  Based on how hard I was pressing it should have shot the piston out of that wheel cylinder.

Bearings…is there an easy way to tell if the bearings are still good?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well, the piston likely would have popped out if it wasn't seized.
Given the condition of that drum I'd check the other.
If you have broken hardware instead of simply unhooked springs you might as well buy two kits.

The only way to "check" a bearing is to inspect the races carefully for pits or fretting.
Remember, the number of clicks off from the torque value differs for new and used bearings.

[Atlas75]

I have yet to inspect the inner bearing/race but the outer is smooth as glass.  To pitting or gauling or other imperfections of any kind on the race.  I wish I knew how old they really were.  We'll see what the inners look like as soon as I get the seal out.

As far as torquing the bearings, this is what my 1980 Ford manual says for this axel.  Does this sound like generally accepted practice today?



Oh yea...what is a bearing cup?  This Ford manual talks about bearings, races, and cups.  Never heard that term before.

[Gary Lewis]

Carl - We have the factory service manual section here: 11-14 WHEEL HUBS & BEARINGS - REAR (FULL FLOATING AXLE).  But it looks like it says the same thing yours does.

As for a cup, I think a that is the outer race and the inner race is called a cone.  But that's just what I think.

[Atlas75]

I did a quick google search and it seems like cup and cone is a bearing style where the cone is the bearing assembly and the cup is the race “assembly”.  I’m guessing the race is technically the surface that the bearing rides on and the whole thing is a cup.  Like I said… quick google search.

Quick question.  Has anyone used this product in their limited slip differentials?  I know everyone has their favorite brand, but are the specifications correct?

[FuzzFace2]

If it has LS on the container I would use it.
Some say to also add the small bottle of LS oil so the clutch plates dont chatter.
On a 86 full size Blazer I never added it and had no issues but my 02 Durango I had the dealer change the oil so I dont know what it was filled with but when it gets hot like a 30 min. high way run and you get off when you make a turn under power you can feel the clutch plates chattering.
I just had the dealer check again but they only checked level and did not add the little bottle of LS oil to stop the chattering.
I dont know if they did not under stand what I was saying or they did not care as the truck has 252,000 miles? I also did not see them check the level as I could see them from the waiting area.
Dave ----

[Atlas75]

I received my box of goodies from RockAuto but before I dive in I have a bearing question.

I keep reading differing opinions on how to prep the bearings for install.  Some say to pack them with grease for initial use and then over time the differential fluid will wash it away and the bearings will be lubed by the differential fluid.

Others say to fill the center of the hub with differential fluid and that will be enough for start up.

I have read other variants on these themes as well including soaking them in the differential fluid before install.

Which method gives the bearing the best shot at a long life?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ford and Dana both say to grease the bearing before installation.
I think I would go with that.

But do oil a new seal. You don't want them installed or starting dry.

[Atlas75]

I was able to spend time working on the passenger side rear brakes again today.  I started by replacing the wheel cylinder and brake line.  Everything was going well until I went to mount the front brake shoe.  Up near the top it was stamped with “this side out”.  The problem was that in order to keep that orientation the shoe would be on backwards.  I quickly realized that whom ever did the last rear brake job put the front shoes on the wrong side!

So now I was faced with a decision.  Do I get new shoes so I can get the correct shoe on the passenger side or do I tear the other side apart and swap shoes.  After checking on the price of new shoes, I ultimately decided to tear apart the other side and swap the shoes.

In the long run I’m glad I decided to tear apart the drivers side too.  When I removed the hub, I found a broken spring, a frozen adjuster, and the cable to adjust the shoes was off the track.  I also noticed the outer cup for the bearing had 1 small mark on it.  It was deep enough that I could feel it with my finger nail so I’ll be replacing that as well.  And oh my the silicone!  Whomever had the axels out previously put way to much silicone on the axel shaft flange when they reinstalled the axel.  It was way down in the bolt holes and all over in places it should not be.

Anyway, after swapping shoes I was able to get the brakes on both sides completed.  Tomorrow I’m going to try and get the passenger side hub ready to be installed.  I’ll need to order new bearings and a wheel seal for the drivers side.

As far as the axel shaft bolts are concerned…I have read that they should not be reused.  How critical is this?  They seem pretty expensive and spending that kind of money on 16 new bolts is a tough pill to swallow.

One more question.  When I finally have both rear tires back on is it safe to move the truck in the driveway knowing how much fluid came out doing the brakes?  I will need to get it to level ground to drain and change the differential fluid.

[ArdWrknTrk]

You just need to be conscious of which side of the rear shoe you put the U shaped cable guide and the lower adjuster pivot pin onto when you get new shoes.
That's why it says "This Side Out"

I have to go back and look (as I know my 10.25 but not your Dana) but the axle bolts at the hub should be place bolts.
These are slightly cupped on the bottom face and the head is crenelated, like a castle tower.



They act as a spring when properly torqued, but they are not torque to yield.
They are fine for reuse if the threads haven't been stretched from over tightening.

Think of those bolts as having a very heavy bellville washer incorporated into the head.

[Gary Lewis]

Good catch on the brakes and the bearing.  Fix it all when you are in there.

And I'm with Jim, I don't think the bolts need to be replaced.  But where did you read that?

[Atlas75]

My bolts don’t look like that.  I’ll get a photo in a bit but they look like a normal bolt with a heavy split lock washer and they have something that looks like green lock tight on the threads.

[Atlas75]

I’ll see if I can locate it and post a photo.

[ArdWrknTrk]

As I said, I don't know what the axle bolts look like on a D61...  

Not a big fan of split lock washers as I don't think they are effective at all and you can never get a proper torque on them.
I would definitely go with some Loctite on the threads, and might consider bellville washers instead of split lock washers.
They are much better at maintaining proper clamping pressure.

[Atlas75]

Here are a few photos of the axel shaft bolts.






All the bolt heads have the same markings.

[Atlas75]

Here are the photos from the 1980 Ford truck manual.  Step 3 says to remove and discard the bolts.  Step 20 says to use new bolts.





Step 20 also mentions making sure all metal is removed from the bolt holes.  Like they are expecting some to be there.  A few of the holes had some but not all.  I was able to get it out with a small pic and a few squirts of brake clean.

[ArdWrknTrk]

That's an Unbreako head stamp.
They were one of the originators of socket head cap screws. (Allen bolts)
There was of course Allen/Holochrome and SPS (Standard Pressed Steel) as well.

If the manual says to replace them perhaps you should.
But they are not waisted, and there is not a torque to X, then go 90°, or some language we would expect of a TTY fastener.

Bill Vose would probably have good advice for a replacement. He spent years doing metallurgical testing.