Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

[Gary Lewis]

I got an email from my son today that said "I'd like to do this trip", and it included a link to this: The Grand Adventure: The North Rim of the Grand Canyon.  This is the invitation I've been looking for!  

So, I'm wanting to discuss what I need to do to Big Blue in order to get it ready - assuming that we go.  Here's what I can think of off the top of my head:

Fix the leaks: I need to pull the engine and replace the main seals, pan, intake gasket, and valve covers and gaskets.

Exhaust System: The glass packs have to go if we are to drive it that far.

EFI: I'm thinking that while the engine is out that I need to put the heads and EFI system off Huck on so that the elevation changes we would be experiencing won't be a problem.  See questions below.

Install the ZF5: It is ready, so when the engine is out put it in, which will make the trip out/back much more relaxed.

3G: Install the 3G I got from Jim, as well as the serpentine belt system.  And, install the ammeter-turned-voltmeter that was destined for Dad's truck.  In fact, I might install the 160a 3G that was destined for Dad's truck and build the other 3G for Dad's truck.  After all, Big Blue needs more current that Dad's truck will.

Hydroboost: And, while everything is out, why not install the better brake system

So, what do you think?  What am I missing?

Bill - Tell me, again, what you've done to Darth to get MAF and SEFI.  Are you running an EEC-IV or V?  If V, what harness did you use?  And, since I have all the stuff for SD bank-fire, is it worth it to go MAF & SEFI?  And, will the SD work with the Edelbrock cam and slightly-higher compression I'd have?

Jim - Remind me, did I get the EEC-IV computer out of the F450?  That had a ZF, so would be a good one to use if I go that way.  (Yes, I know I have it, but that's in the shop and I'm out of time to go look before church.)

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, you got the computer (in a little foam bag) and the plug, grommet, and harness.

Tell him to go buy a Unimog or Mann if he wants to go overlanding.....

[85lebaront2]

Try this again, if it vanishes this time screw Nabble!

I am using an EEC-V on Darth as that was the only MAF/SEFI 460 system built. I ran him on an SD/BF system at first, and did some playing with the injector wires. The harness I have in there started as a Powerstroke harness from a 1996 truck. I rewired it to move the injector wires to the EEC instead of the IDM that the Powerstroke uses to control the solenoid valves on the injectors, same colors were used.

The reason I wanted to get away from the SD/BF system, the EFI 460s have a penchant for problems with #5 cylinder (ring failure, burned pistons etc.) I resequenced my injectors to match the intake manifold 180° design. The factory truck BF setup is 1458 and 2367 as the groups, the firing order being 15426378 outs 1 and 5 right after the other and the fuel comes in the back of the right side, FPR is front left, right over #5 injector and #5 probably runs lean. I resequenced mine to 1467 and 2358 like the manifold ports (just like a carburetor, it feeds first one side then the other). It idled smoother for one thing.

[Ford F834]

Gary, the north rim is spectacular, and a completely different experience than the south, mostly because of popularity. During the good weather months the south rim can be a bit like Disneyland as you wait your turn to look over the railing. On the north side it is very remote and empty outside of the north rim village. I have dabbled in the "Arizona Strip" back country, but deep exploring is best done in a group, or with two vehicles at the very least. Besides the reliability items that you mentioned, you might consider a 38 gallon rear fuel tank and/or good steel fuel carriers in the bed. Carrying two spare tires can save a lot of grief in an area where there are a lot of bad things waiting to happen to tires. (I wouldn't happen to know anything about this 🙈🙄). Bring more critical spare parts and tools than you think you will need, and at least two jacks. Bring tire chains even if the weather does not indicate it. I cannot afford a satellite phone, but I did purchase a power inverter and a signal booster. It cost a bit over $200 but it really does make a big difference. As in the difference between being able to make a call or not. Most of the emergency response and law enforcement vehicles in this state are equipped with them. They offer a special antenna for autos if you want it permanently installed. Another handy accessory is a solar battery charger. Not trying to sound like an overkill fear monger, but being well prepared and equipped helps you enjoy the solitude without worry. And I would go ahead and keep the hydroboost on the list. It really isn't a big job to change it out.

[Gary Lewis]

   

Bill - I feel your pain!  I had a large post typed in a lost it.    Where do you stand working with Peter from Nabble?

Anyway, wasn't the 460 available in MAF SEFI?  It was used through '97 from what I've read, and everything in '96 had to be OBD-II.  So why not use a harness from one of those?

Jonathan - Janey and I've been to the North Rim once, many years ago, and to the South Rim twice.  Most recently was late Aug a year ago when we rode the mules down and stayed at Phantom Ranch.  And, it was a zoo up on top.

Anyway, good suggestions.  Thanks.  What about an air compressor.  I've thought about using a York/Tecumseh A/C compressor for one like Luke did in Big Blackie, as shown below.  (You almost got to meet Luke and see Big Blackie in Sept, but he had to cancel at the last minute.)

[PetesPonies]

Just from a FI viewpoint . . .running SD on an engine that didn't have it, is difficult. YOu can get flashed chips . .but why? Let the MAF and the corresponding computer, make those decisions. From a true power standpoint, a SD can make more power, mostly because of the lack of a MAF to ask the air to go through. Without it, there is a marginal gain . .but not hardly worth it iMO. Run the MAF.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Pete.  Since I have the intake, injectors, throttle body, intake plumbing, etc, all it would take, I think, to go MAF is the MAF , a harness, and the right computer.  But, there's a lot of learning to do on my part in order to accomplish it, where I have a bolt-in/plug-in SD system.  However, if it won't work correctly with the headers, cam, etc then it won't be satisfactory.

[Ford F834]

It is a shame that Luke couldn't come, I was looking forward to meeting him. I guess on board air would be nice to have. I was going to mention an electric compressor and tire plug kit in addition to the extra spare. Does Luke have air lockers or what does he use his for?

[Ken Blythen]

Are you planning on keeping Big Blue long, long term? (Sorry, I lose track of the evolving plans! )

[85lebaront2]

Gary, because virtually all 460 powered trucks were >8500 lbs GVW they were exempt from OBD-II and air bags. One member on one of the FB groups called the MAF 460 computer a unicorn till I posted a picture of the label on my FEZ3 EEC. Ford actually built some EEC-V SD/BF computers for MT applications and anything >14000 GVW was exempt from even the California OBD-II requirement. Once you have the 1996 EVTM in hand you will see. I would look for a 1996/7 351W truck w/E4OD. It will have the front harness you need to use an EEC-V computer and will be MAF, you will still need a 90mm MAF for a 460.

You are at least closer to the left coast that I am, most of the actual CA spec stuff I have has come from Southern CA sources.

[Gary Lewis]

Jonathan - Yes, I was really looking forward to meeting Luke and seeing Big Blackie.  Perhaps next year.  As for use of the compressor, I don't know about the lockers.  I had assumed it was to air tires up after lowering their pressure for offroad use.

The reason I asked about the compressor at this stage of the game is that I have two nice aluminum alternator brackets for serpentine belts as a consequence of getting parts from Jim and also buying Huck.  One is w/o air pump and one is with.  And, if I want to have the compressor I thought I'd see if it would fit where the air pump was supposed to go.  Otherwise I would use the non-AIR bracket to clean things up.

Ken - I can certainly understand your confusion re the evolving plans.    But, the long-term plan is to have two trucks, Big Blue and Dad's.  I would love to find a Bronco to add to the fleet, but unless my son and his family move somewhere that gives them an opportunity to use one, there's absolutely no need to do that.

So Big Blue is my "work truck".  With the winch, front receiver, Detroit Trutrac diff's front and rear, 2000 CCA's of batteries, and tires that are rated for 3750 lbs each, it is quite capable.  But for overlanding, which my son has wanted to do for some time, it needs more.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Somehow I missed this.  Sorry, but thanks for it.  Ok, not likely to find a 460 with MAF/SF, so go with something like a 351.

But, you said E4OD, and I think you forgot that Big Blue is a manual, currently with a T-19 and soon to be a ZF5.  Don't I need a computer from a truck with a manual tranny?  Or, can the auto part of the code be turned off?

Jonathan - You are even closer to the left coast.  Does your salvage have any CA trucks?  Like a '96 or '97 F250 w/a 460 that has the OBD-II port?  And, by the way, have you done this trip?  Would you be interested in doing it?

Anyway, this is all speculation on the need for EFI.  I know I proposed it, but creates a huge amount of work.  I've taken carbed vehicles to the South Rim and had no problem.  So, if took a Strip Kit for the Eddy might I get by with the carb?  I realize that the time to do it is when the engine is out, as the heads and intake have to be swapped and they are massive.  But, that would be a LOT of work.

As for where we are in the planning, I think my son is very interested.  We've batted back and forth a number of ideas of things needed, many of which overlap with ones we have discussed here.  And, he suggested we do a trial run someplace in the MO, AR, OK, KS area.  

[85lebaront2]

Actually, if you go with an MT computer for MAF it wouldn't be a problem. Ford actually kept many of the MT trucks SD/BF up through 1996/7 on the heavier vehicles. As I said, I have an MT EEC-IV, and according to Jim, you have the 1995 one.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Are you saying I might as well go SD/BF?  I have everything I need in order to do that, so might as well use it?

The speed-density system doesn't adapt well to changes, but other than a probable compression increase and the very mild Edelbrock Performer cam, Big Blue has a rather stock 460.  Would the SD system work with the minor changes?  Man, that would make it easier.

[Ford F834]

Gary, I honestly have no idea about the availablity of late 460 with OBDII in my area. I have not had any reason to pay attention to 460 stuff, but I am certainly willing to look if you give me details on what to look ~for.

As far as the necessity to go EFI, for remote trekking I really prefer the simplest vehicles with the least electronics. The fine trail dust and vibration is not kind to any sort of electrical equipment. Cars, laptops, cameras, GPS units, and other of my research gear has had a rough go on the Arizona Strip. That said, not many "car guys" in the Flagstaff area run Edelbrock carbs because they simply can't tune them right for this altitude. Not that it would leave you stranded, but it might not give optimal performance either. When you go very remote, you think a lot less about performance and a lot more about what will stay running and get you home, and what equipment can you actually repair on the side of the road if it does break down.

I have not gone the route suggested on the website. As I mentioned, I have only dabbled. Partly for safety reasons, but also my draw to the area was particular plant habitats, not the rim scenic views (although I would have like that!). I have been south of Fredonia in the Wolf Hole area, up the back roads to Jacob Lake, and to South Canyon, North Canyon and Badger Point to the east, and a lot of areas in Houserock Valley/Vermillion Cliffs. I would definitely be interested in going if you are receptive to having the company, provided I can arrange the time off etc., next year may prove to be an example the Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times", especially if my employer goes under.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, hook up a vacuum gauge and see (a) what kind of idle vacuum you get and (b) how steady it is.

[Gary Lewis]

Jonathan - You have a very valid point.  Simplicity is a good thing, especially when going to remote locations.  And the existing Eddy is simple.  Plus, I can tune it.  In fact, if I were to put the wideband O2 meter on it would be easy to tune.

My guess is that I could set the carb up with a jet/rod combo that would be good for the ~700' elevation where I live, and then swap just the rods to get a good combo at 8000' on the North Rim.  And rod swaps are duck soup - pull the air cleaner, loosen a screw, swivel the plate out of the way, swap the rod, and reverse the above procedure.

As for when to go, there is a remote chance we could get things together in time to go in late Spring of 2018, which I've read is an ideal time as the plants are blooming.  A better chance for 2018 would be around Thanksgiving as the crew did in that link.  But, my son has already said that we shouldn't go alone, so I know he would welcome you.  And, you know that I would.  

[Gary Lewis]

Will do, Bill.  But it'll be high teens if not 20" and pretty steady - unless there really is a miss at idle, which is something I need to chase.

Are you saying that a smooth idle with strong vacuum suggests that I have a strong engine with essentially stock spec's, and that SD will work?

[85lebaront2]

Exactly, if you have low pulsating vacuum at idle, then the SD MAP sensor goes batshit trying to figure out what is happening. You only need a single O2 sensor for the SD system, Ford put it at the H just ahead of the catalytic converter.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - I'll check later on the vacuum.  But, one of the reasons it would be easy to SD big blue is that Huck is already set up for it and I have everything.  See the pic below for the O2 sensor, which has the appropriate harness.  So, I could go with the EFI intake and heads, but also the exhaust off of Huck with that O2 sensor.  I have the rest of it with mufflers, so would just have to weld it back together and bolt it on.  Obviously that does away with the L&L headers, but.....

Now for an update.  Dropped the E4OD off at the tranny shop, which will be 'splained on that thread, soon.  Then stopped at 4 Wheel Parts, where I got the winch and other things.  Talked to Corey Marshall, who said he will sign up on here as he has an '86 Bronco and wants to find a Bullnose shortbed.  Anyway, he also has a '96 F250 setup for overlanding and gave me a bunch of good tips about equipment as well as how to find places to overland in this region.  More on that later.

Anyway, here's the pic of the rear of Huck, and you can see the O2 sensor in the lower left corner.  It serves both exhaust pipes from its one location.