Truck broke down outside Murdoch’s

[Paulco]

Hello

Looking for advice, took my truck out to run a few errands. At the last stop when I started it, the engine did not turn over and the starter motor sounded like it was just spinning. Any thoughts?

[Gary Lewis]

Let's make sure we are using the same terminology.  I think that "the engine did not turn over" means it did not spin when you turned the key, but the starter did spin.  If that is correct then your starter is most likely bad.  But it is possible that the flywheel has bad teeth at the spot where the starter was supposed to engage.

Your signature doesn't say what transmission you have, but if it is a manual you could roll the truck a bit and pop the clutch to get the engine to turn some, and then the starter might engine if the flywheel is bad.

[Paulco]

It’s an automatic transmission. But I was thinking the starter motor might be the issue. I will turn the engine with a wrench and then try it.

[Gary Lewis]

15/16" socket on the damper bolt.

[Paulco]

Works fine now I turned the engine manually.

Thanks

[Gary Lewis]

Well, that means you have a damaged flywheel.  Pull the inspection plate off the transmission/torque converter and turn the engine over slowly.  I think you'll find a bad spot, and if so the flywheel should be replaced.  Otherwise every time it stops in that spot you won't be able to start it.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, a bit of trivia for you, an engine will stop in the same places, on a 4 cyl there will be 2 worn areas on the ring gear. 6 cyl will have 3 and an 8 cyl 4. These are where the compression of the next cyl in sequence stops the crank from turning.

The other issue, as the teeth on the ring gear wear, the ones on the starter drive also wear and since it is spinning as it is forced into the ring gear (more common on Bendix inertia drives and the Ford moveable pole piece starters), it plays milling machine to the teeth on both until finally the worn down end of the starter drive gear and ring gear reach a point where they will not engage. This sometimes is evident by a grinding noise, or even a grating like a bad synchroniser makes. The other failure is the overrunning clutch in the starter drive, it can fail, or stick in the freewheel condition. This usually manifests as a whine or squeal from it.

The more modern starters such as the Ford PMGR and the interesting ones some of the imports and Chrysler use along with GM, are solenoid shifted and the contacts that turn on the motor are not connected until the two gears have at least partially meshed, this alleviates a lot of the gear damage. Even a lot of small engines are going this way from the Bendix inertia drives to solenoid shifted starters, frequently with permanent magnet motors.

[Gary Lewis]

Cool info, Bill. Thanks.

[Paulco]

I have a follow up question, not sure if it should be a new thread. My start motor completely disengaged this morning and I only hear the high pitch starter motor when I turn the key.
I took the starter motor off and noticed about 20% of the front of all the gear wheel spokes are worn. It looks like the starter motor has not been engaging the full teeth on the gear wheel.

Checked the starter motor and the fly wheel extends out fully when connected to a jump starter.

What would cause a problem like this?

Paul

[Gary Lewis]

Are you sure you have the right starter?  On a Windsor there are two different starters, one for a mechanical transmission one one for an automatic.  The difference is in how far the gear extends to engage the flywheel.

And when you say "gear wheel", do you mean the flywheel?

[Paulco]

I had the starter motor for an automatic but decided to buy another brand. I took some measurements and determined the new start motor was approx. 1/8 inch longer that the other. Once I put it in it worked as expected.

[Gary Lewis]

Glad you got it working.