Today's Value Of An '85 F250 4WD w/a 460?

[grumpin]

Gary Lewis wrote

Thanks, Dane.  But I'm not so sure.  Here's their statement:

#2 vehicles could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 vehicles that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and finishes will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine. The vehicle will drive as a new vehicle of its era would. The one word description for #2 vehicles is "excellent."

And on Big Blue you don't have to be a "seasoned observer" to see the Bondo in the cab corners and over the wheelwells.  Nor the peeling clear coat on the hood.  (No, there should never have been clear coat on the hood, and I'm hoping I can buff it off.)  Plus there are plenty of paint chips, and overall patina.

And if you then look at the #3 & 4 descriptions together, necessary since #3 refers to #4, you see a more accurate depiction of Big Blue.  "Incorrect parts"?  

#3 vehicles could possess some, but not all of the issues of a #4 vehicle, but they will be balanced by other factors such as a fresh paint job or a new, correct interior where applicable. #3 vehicles drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These vehicles are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 vehicle.

#4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle.

Basically, Hagerty is describing collector vehicles.  Ones that are striving to be "correct".  But that's not what I want Big Blue to be.  I want a vehicle I'm not afraid to take anywhere, meaning long trips or offroad, because it is ready and capable.  There's no worries about whether it can make it, but there's also no worry that it might get a small ding.

And I should have been clearer, and I mean as a daily driver, as a truck that is used. Hagerty’s descriptions don’t work for that. You’re correct, those are concours descriptions.

[ArdWrknTrk]

And that's why Haggerty wants to insure a concours vehicle.
They know the only value it has is as an archetype, or a garage queen.

If the barn burns down around it, you're covered
You're not likely to incur much damage in the vets parade.
And they certainly aren't interested in a custom, restomod, whatever...

Unless it has provence.
I'm sure if you had a 1 of 1 Bugatti you could get covered, but you'd have the auction history and some steep assements to go with it.

[Nothing Special]

I know I've posted my (unpopular) opinion on this on other bulletin boards, not sure if I have here.  I follow the advice that my dad got from his uncle in the late 40s:  Never insure ANYTHING you can afford to lose.

Insurance companies are in the habit of making a profit.  That's not a bad thing at all, it's just a thing.  So everyone that doesn't lose their (whatever) is paying a lot and not getting anything for it (except maybe peace-of-mind?).  And everyone who does is paying a lot and getting at least some of it back (maybe more than all depending on how bad your luck is).  But you're betting that you'll have bad luck when you buy insurance.

I have insurance on my house, medical insurance on myself and wife, and liability insurance on my pickup, Bronco and boat.  We have full-coverage on my wife's car (she wasn't swayed by my dad's uncle and ticking her off wasn't worth saving a grand a year or whatever it is).  And I have life insurance (because I'm too lazy to get the insurance I needed when we were just starting out canceled).

When my younger brother bought a brand new 1987 Mustang GT (cash) he just got liability on it.  He figured if he didn't total it in I think it was 5 years he'd come out ahead.  He had it for about 12 years before selling it.  My dad even took the insurance off his house a few years before he moved into a condo (although he did get an umbrella policy for liability).

So my advice would be to just get liability (unless that would really tick Janey off!).  Feel free to not follow my dad's uncle's advice.  No one else does!

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, Hagerty is into collector vehicles, and BB isn't one of those.  It would boggle their minds with its "incorrect" parts.  I want something I can use.

As for just going with liability, Bob, I'll wait and see what the cost will be doing it this way.  But thanks.

Just got back from visiting the insurance guy.  We submitted the form and will await the company's response.

[grumpin]

That’s what I do Bob. I’ve gotten full coverage in the past on vehicles I had loans on because it was required by my credit union.

If I had a really rare or even just plain expensive vehicle, I would hope to have enough money to be self insured.

[kramttocs]

No good answer for you but I am surprised the agent is interested in what similar (unmodified) trucks are going for. My agent just wanted to know what value I wanted to cover it for and that was that.
You are a brave man adding up what was spent.

[Gary Lewis]

The agent said we'll add the replacement value of the truck to the documented money you have in it and ask to insure it for that.  So that's what we did.  We'll see what they say.

But I'm not sure "brave" is the right word.  

[ratdude747]

Sometimes I have to think Haggerty's is smoking dope.

My '84 appraised at $4000 as a #4... Ok, sure. Even with the engine build, I doubt my non-routine-maintenance expenses (including the $750 purchase price) are that much... $2-3k, I'd believe. But $4k????

A sucker is born every minute I guess...

[Gary Lewis]

As their chart shows, the prices on these trucks have gone up ~50% in the last year, and that was to January.  They may come back down a bit, but I doubt they'll lose the 50% gain they made.

So don't sell your truck short, literally.  

[jdavidsmi]

I was thinking about how much I would save if I switch insurance company. If I saved 400.00, with company A , and I switch to company B and saved another 400.00. if I kept switching and savings would I reached a point where they would pay me?

[kramttocs]

You just uncovered "The secret your insurance company doesn't want you to know".

[Gary Lewis]

Yep.  Which is why I have a call in to my existing insurance company to let them know I have applied elsewhere for insurance on Big Blue.

Last time I asked about better/different insurance they told me to take it to the local classic used car guy and have him appraise it.    He knows so little about things that he's asked me in the past!

[Gary Lewis]

Just a bit more info: It looks like I'll probably not only insure Big Blue with American Modern Insurance Group, but also Dad's truck.  As part of that process I was trying to figure out the value of Dad's truck so I used Hagerty's site again.  And I was struck by the different curves for values of Dad's truck vs Big Blue and thought you might be similarly surprised.

Dad's truck, meaning a 1981 F150 RCLB 4WD automatic w/a 351M on the left and Big Blue, meaning a 1985 F250 RCLB 4WD manual w/a 460, on the right:  

[Gary Lewis]

I put those side-by-side so you could compare the curves, but I realize they are hard, if not impossible, to read, so here they are full sized.

Here's Dad's:





Here's Big Blue:

[85lebaront2]

Gee, I wonder what Darth would be valued at?

#1 Concours $22,700
#2 Excellent $15,300
#3 Good $8,700
#4 Fair $4,500
Gee, I paid $4,500 for him in 1994 and was offered $7,500 when I got him home by a used car dealer I knew.

[Gary Lewis]

As close as I can get, but there was no option for DRW.

[85lebaront2]

I did it by VIN and got the values I posted.

[Gary Lewis]

Sorry, didn't see your numbers for some reason before I posted.

[Gary Lewis]

Just an update on the eval of Big Blue.  Hagerty has recently updated their information and they say that a Cat 3 is now worth $20,500 instead of "just" $12,500 as of January.  Look at the slope of that curve!  

[kramttocs]

That is crazy!
My brother in law and I were talking last night about this rise while looking at vehicles on FB that are showing the same behavior.