T19 Shift Lever/Rail Woes

[ArdWrknTrk]

Rangers are really useful vehicles, at a size that's not as awkward as my 250 is in some situations.

It's a shame there are almost none left on the roads up here.

[85pig]

I'd love to have a ZF5, but the cost of a rebuild makes the T18/T19 much more attractive.  I've read that it's a difficult rebuild with some specialized tools, so not going to attempt to tackle that myself.

Interesting info on the T19 shifter differences.

[ArdWrknTrk]

'Alvin in AZ' has done a couple of teardowns over in FTE.
If you're willing to beat it up you don't really need special tools.
If you need to shim a new gear stack you definitely don't want to go there....

I remember the BSA manual I used to have.
It said "in order to split the cases, drop smartly".  

[85pig]

The way my luck goes, I'd drop the cases "smartly", and they'd split......but not where I wanted them to.

[salans7]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Rangers are really useful vehicles, at a size that's not as awkward as my 250 is in some situations.

It's a shame there are almost none left on the roads up here.

I'm fortunate to have two, with one of them only having 70,000 miles. Even down here, most of them are pretty beat up by now since the last of the small Rangers rolled off the assembly line 13 years ago. Good condition versions with less than 100k are going for $12k and above still.

85pig wrote

I'd love to have a ZF5, but the cost of a rebuild makes the T18/T19 much more attractive.  I've read that it's a difficult rebuild with some specialized tools, so not going to attempt to tackle that myself.

Interesting info on the T19 shifter differences.

That's one of my biggest reasons for not going ZF5 either. They're also prone to cracking just like the T19 bellhousings, and some people refer to them as glass transmissions.

You would be surprised how many differences there are in 1980-1987 manual transmission AND transfer case shifters. I attempted to map them out once, but still ended up finding even more versions I didn't know about. Below are the most common, but there's different shift levers for all of the 4-speed overdrive transmissions, bolt-on transfer case levers, different curves, etc.

Here's two different transfer case lever bends.

Left one is 1980- early 1982 due to threaded shift knob, but this curve went through 1986.
Right one is late 1982 - 1986 with a splined knob, but this curve was also used on 1980 - early 1982 with threads.



1980-1982 NP435 Transmission Shift Lever on top (1980-early 1982 have threaded shift knobs, 82-86 have splined shift knobs)
1983-1987 T-18/T-19 Transmission Shift Lever on bottom (This one is for a T19)

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thank you for the comparison photos Shaun!  

I've never really thought much about the bends, as long as the stick was comfortable to reach.

[Gary Lewis]

Shaun - Would it be ok if I used your pics on the page for transfer cases and a new page for transmission shift levers?

As for a "glass" transmission, I've gotten quite a few miles on my ZF5 w/o cracking it, both behind the 351M in Dad's truck and behind the 460 in Big Blue.  But I will admit that the synchros are delicate.  Before rebuilding there were spots in the rotation where it would NOT go into reverse.  Turns out the reverse synchro was broken.  And after rebuillding third isn't quite right, in spite of having new synchros.

[salans7]

Thanks Jim!

Gary Lewis wrote

Shaun - Would it be ok if I used your pics on the page for transfer cases and a new page for transmission shift levers?

Yes, I'm fine with that. Let me see if I have others I've taken.

1987 only transfer case lever.





Late 82-87 Shift Knobs (1987 on the left)



My previous attempt at mapping out the differences (incomplete since I realized there's way more variations than I can fit in this image):

-Upper right hand corner: Typical 1980-early 1982 with NP435, 4x4, and 1980-only shift boot trim ring.
-Lower left hand corner: Typical 1982-1986 with BW T-18/T-19, 4x4, and larger transmission shift boot.
-Lower right hand corner: Typical 1987 with T-19 straight lever, 1987-only 4x4 lever, and slight variations in boots.

[Gary Lewis]

Shaun - Please check these out:

Documetation/Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/Manual Transmission Shift Levers

Documentation/Transfer Cases and then the Linkage tab followed by the Shift Lever Pictures tab.

I'm happy to edit any of it, add more pics or descriptions, etc.

[salans7]

Gary Lewis wrote

Shaun - Please check these out:

Documetation/Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/Manual Transmission Shift Levers

Documentation/Transfer Cases and then the Linkage tab followed by the Shift Lever Pictures tab.

I'm happy to edit any of it, add more pics or descriptions, etc.

Thanks Gary! I'm gonna send you the photo of all the shift levers together in an email so you can post it with better resolution (if Nabble allows that).

[Gary Lewis]

Since the documentation part isn't on Nabble I was able to put your higher-res picture in.  See what you think: Documetation/Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/Manual Transmission Shift Levers.

[85pig]

I'm wanting to eventually swap my T18 for a T19, the transmission protesting whenever I want to use first is annoying.  Haven't heard of the T19 bellhousing issue, and I'm 99% sure my T18 uses the same (or compatible) bell?  

A local differential guy told me the Mazda M5OD is really a pretty good trans behind the 300, especially running 3.70/3.73 gears, so that might be an option.  My biggest beefs with either the ZF5 or M5OD is the slave cylinder inside the bellhousing.  

Crazy all of the different variations in shifters.  Seems like the transfer case stick would be pretty much the same throughout, with only differences as to where/how they mount depending one transmission and case model.  

[salans7]

Looks good Gary, thanks!

85pig wrote

I'm wanting to eventually swap my T18 for a T19, the transmission protesting whenever I want to use first is annoying.  Haven't heard of the T19 bellhousing issue, and I'm 99% sure my T18 uses the same (or compatible) bell?  

A local differential guy told me the Mazda M5OD is really a pretty good trans behind the 300, especially running 3.70/3.73 gears, so that might be an option.  My biggest beefs with either the ZF5 or M5OD is the slave cylinder inside the bellhousing.  

Crazy all of the different variations in shifters.  Seems like the transfer case stick would be pretty much the same throughout, with only differences as to where/how they mount depending one transmission and case model.

The bellhousing issue is mainly related to the slave cylinder mount on big block and diesel bellhousings (T19 was only available behind BB and Diesels). Any sort of clutch issue that causes more pressure to be on this area will crack it, and that's why they're prone to cracking as they're just aluminum and not the beefiest in that area. I haven't heard of this being an issue on the small block bellhousings, as the slave cylinder mounts a different way.

The M5OD is a good trans as I have the R1 version in my daily driver Ranger. The downfall as you mentioned is the internal slave cylinder. You can go through ten of them before you find one that doesn't leak fluid or have an entrance for air, and they're not fun to replace nor bleed.

[85pig]

I still need to relieve Gary of his old T19, should (eventually) be a direct swap for my T18 - which replaced a T170 OD unit.  Looking at pics, definitely different mounting for the slave between the "big" T19 and SB T18.  

I reused my transfer case shifter from the T170/208 case; I know the t-case adapter was different between the 170 and T18, but I believe mounted up similar enough that it all went together with little drama.  

[Gary Lewis]

No hurry.  My T19 isn't going any place - especially today at 3F and snow.  Don't think I've ever seen snow at this temp nor snow that doesn't melt whatsoever.

[salans7]

I did end up ordering a pack of 3/8-16 to 3/8-24 studs that should be here soon. I also cut the previous attempt at threads off the lever, so I can tap into the thicker walls of the shift lever that haven't been ground on. It looks like this should work out well, and I'll decide at some point whether I want to weld the stud in or just leave it alone.

[ArdWrknTrk]

salans7 wrote

I did end up ordering a pack of 3/8-16 to 3/8-24 studs
 It looks like this should work out well, and I'll decide at some point whether I want to weld the stud in or just leave it alone.

Nice!
Progress is Good!  

[Gary Lewis]

I think that plan is going to work nicely.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've been impressed with the new orange loctite.
It is said to be as 'strong' as red without the need for heating to 400° for removal.
Either of these is a whole lot less permanent that welding, if you choose to change your mind down the line.

[Gary Lewis]

I've not used orange enough to know for sure, but orange on the threads to the shifter and blue on the knob would be my first thought.  You could get it off if needed, maybe with pliers but who cares if you have several more spare?