Sound Control - Approaches, Thoughts, Tips, Tricks, & Experiences

[Gary Lewis]

As some of you know, I'm getting ready to use various sound control methodologies in Big Blue. In fact, I've asked a few questions and gotten some answers on his transformation thread and will move those here for continuity.

And now, for what little I know about "sound control". I found this on the internet here, so it must be correct:

1. Stop entry: Make every possible effort to stop sound from entering via cracks, holes, etc. Toward this end I'll have new door gaskets, window felts, etc. And, all body plugs will be installed with sealer.
2. Reduce vibration: Mass loading a panel, such as with Dynamat, both reduces its vibration as well as lowers the frequency thereof. However, fully covering everything with Dynamat, or similar, isn't necessary as the vast majority of the effect is achieved by covering 25% of the panel - in the middle, as the edges where it meets another panel are not going to vibrate.
3. Decouple: If a layer of soft material is used between the panel and another panel the vibration is not coupled to the second panel. That can be accomplished via some closed-cell foam, with a full-coverage rubber floor mat like is used in the trucks w/o carpet serving as the 2nd panel. Or, if you are like me and want carpet, use one with a heavy rubber backing, like ACC offers - Mass Backing.
4. Absorption: But, whatever you do there will be some sound that either gets through or is created in the cab, so absorption material is needed. Basically, anything soft helps, but things like deep pile carpet, seat upholstery, headliners, etc are good.

I'm exploring what the options are, and I'm blown away with the number and cost variability thereof. So, in my typical fashion, I've started a spreadsheet to capture what I'm learning. This is early days and all I have are mass loading materials, which are used to reduce the vibrations of panels. But I plan to add other materials as I get farther into this.

Last, I welcome your input. (And I'm moving the related discussion from Big Blue's Transformation here straightaway.)

[salans7]

You sure the cover isn't sitting in or with the stuff from Dad's truck? Did you possibly give it away to somebody?

Gary Lewis wrote

  So, what sound deadening material do you'se guys recommend?

This is the sound deadening I have in my Ranger. Stuff went on great, and I have zero complaints. However, I have no idea how the price compares to other products. I don't know if I would recommend using as much as I did (shown below) but I barely hear any outside noise inside my truck.

FatMat RattleTrap Sound Deadening

[Danny G]

salans7 wrote

You sure the cover isn't sitting in or with the stuff from Dad's truck? Did you possibly give it away to somebody?

Gary Lewis wrote

  So, what sound deadening material do you'se guys recommend?

This is the sound deadening I have in my Ranger. Stuff went on great, and I have zero complaints. However, I have no idea how the price compares to other products. I don't know if I would recommend using as much as I did (shown below) but I barely hear any outside noise inside my truck.

FatMat RattleTrap Sound Deadening

Kill Mat and other brands probably are all close in price. There honestly is no difference in them its all the same stuff. 80mil butyl sheets with a foil back that adds a bit of insulation but mostly hampers vibrations. I think the killmat rand me about $55 bucks for 36 sqft. But it was also in sheets instead of a roll.

[kramttocs]

I really like the Eastwood offering. They have 3 different kinds - the thick asphalt kind for the floor and firewall, a thin lightweight foam for doors, and a thick really lightweight for the ceiling. I can't say enough good stuff about the door kind.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok guys, thanks.  I'll do some reading up on the stuff.

As for the tranny cover, it is hiding with the lower steering column.  I have one that's AWOL, and they have to be together.  

[Gary Lewis]

Well, I've read enough to be gobsmacked.  There are way too many offerings these days.  So I need to ask specific questions of each of you:

Shaun: Did you go with the 50 or 80 mil FatMat?  Everywhere?  And why did you choose that?

Scatch: Which Killmat did you use?  50 mil or 80 mil?  Why?

Scott: The Eastwood offerings are so extensive I have no idea which ones you used.  And why did you pick those?  Please enlighten me.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've used 80mil duct wrap on my floor and back wall of the cab.
Some panels inside the doors too.

My firewall, transmission tunnel and passenger floor have mass damping vinyl attached to 12mm foam rubber uncoupler.
I don't know what this product is. It was left over from a studio I built.
We also use a similar product for pump and generator enclosures.

[Gary Lewis]

Interesting, Jim.  Is the 80 mil duct liner something like this from Frost King?

The mass damping vinyl attached to 12mm foam rubber uncoupler on the firewall, transmission tunnel, and passenger's floor is getting pretty scientific.  That's a good approach.  I don't plan to pull the factory stuff off the firewall.  And while I know the benefits of an uncoupler and mass damping, I doubt I'll go that far.

How big of a difference did you notice when you installed all that?  And can you tell a difference from the driver's side to the passenger's side?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Not at all.
It's not fiberglass, and it's definitely not 3.5oz for a 15' roll.
It's somewhere between rubber and mastic with a foil surface.

The other stuff -as I said- was leftovers from a job.
My wife would complain that her feet  would get hot so I used the foil, then the soundproofing, then another layer of foil.
Giving two reflective layers with airspace in between.

I noticed a difference from my seat but she doesn't drive stick, so I never rode there.
Since she and my trusty companion are gone that side is usually buried in tools.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, that makes a lot more sense than the Frost King stuff.  Thanks.

[kramttocs]

This chart shows the 3 I was referring to: https://www.eastwood.com/x-mat
Part numbers: 15826, 15825, 15841

Went with them based on being happy with Eastwood products in the past, they were having a sale, positive reviews, and the tech support guys I talked to about them were very helpful.

[salans7]

Gary Lewis wrote

Shaun: Did you go with the 50 or 80 mil FatMat?  Everywhere?  And why did you choose that?

I went with the 80 mil. I have it on the roof, the entire floor, the back wall, inside and outside of all four doors, and some spots were doubled up like the area around my sub box. I wouldn't use as much if I were to do it again, my only reasoning for doing as much as I did was because I ordered more than I needed and since the Ranger was my only vehicle at the time, I just used up what I had on the Ranger.

 When I put some on my F350, I'll probably put some on the firewall, a few large sections on the floor, the backwall, two or three large sections for the roof, some large sections inside the outer door skin, and a few sections on the inner door skin (where the handles mount). That should be enough to handle most vibrations.

[Gary Lewis]

Scott - Thanks.  I hadn't found that chart.  It helps.

Shaun - Ok, got it.  In other words, you won't put as much on the F350 as you did on the Ranger?  Why is that?  You don't think full coverage is needed?

[salans7]

Gary Lewis wrote

Shaun - Ok, got it.  In other words, you won't put as much on the F350 as you did on the Ranger?  Why is that?  You don't think full coverage is needed?

Exactly. I went WAY overboard on my Ranger. With that being said, I am also running two 12" subwoofers behind the seats, so the Ranger needed more due to the subwoofers rattling everything inside. The F350 more than likely won't have subwoofers, so it won't be necessary to cover as much. I just want to cover what will vibrate under normal driving circumstances and under moderate sound from the speakers.

[swampedout]

Looks Good, Gary!
Ill be keeping an eye on this

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks.

I added another mat or two, increased the font size, and most importantly, added a price per sq ft calculation.  That's the eye-opening figure.  Basically there's a 2:1 ratio from $1.61 Killmat to $3.60 for X-Mat.

Still doing research.....  

[salans7]

I find it interesting that FatMat is $62 on Amazon, but $59 on Ebay.

[Danny G]

I have 80 mil kill mat as it was recommended to me. I have it in the b pillars as well.

I also have the ACC Eva mat which is a butyl/asphalt mat for the floor. (80mil killmat went everywhere this couldn't)

Then on top of that a foil backed jute mat on the floor.

Then the ACC carpet which is also insulated in the foot wells.

SO the stack up on my floor is EVA/Killmat > Foiland jute > ACC carpet with backer. Its pretty nice feeling lol.

All body plugs have been installed with poly sulfide sealant as in my build page, and all screws/bolts through the body as well.

In the doors I will line them with 80 mil kill mat then I will back the door panels with foil backed jute insulation. With the foil facing the door, the mind set not needing a vapor barrier this way.

The back wall the plan is to hit it with kill mat then modify the back wall carpet from a 87+ series to cover it.

The ceiling I was going to use the 80 mil mat and then cover with the high liner head liner, may look into the light weight stuff from east woods.

[Gary Lewis]

Shaun - Does the stuff on Ebay free have free shipping?  From Amazon it does - to me 'cause I'm a Prime member.

Scatch - Tell me more about the ACC Eva?  I didn't find it on the ACC site, but I've seen it before.

On your doors, w/o a vapor barrier won't you be chancing getting the jute wet?

On the back wall, did the 87+ trucks have a bigger piece of carpet?  I want that, for sure.

And, speaking of 87+, I'm thinking of getting ACC carpet for a '90 with the high tunnel 'cause I have the ZF5.  But I'm not finding "high tunnel" 5-speed.  Am I missing it?

[swampedout]

Ebay strikes again! Theres no way to explain some of the deals that pop up there. No matter what it is, I usually search ebay before buying anywhere else.
My favorite filter on ebay is sellers in North America only, it cuts out most of the spam listings.