Saginaw brackets question

[ArdWrknTrk]

Some other component may do the tensioning.
Like I said, I don't really know.  🤷

I was trying to point out that all the EFI 5.0 polygroove setups use a tensioner, and the steering pump is fixed.

With my 460 setup there is a quadrant plate and a square hole broached in the pump bracket so you can hold it tight with a breaker bar while you tighten the adjustment bolt.

[Ford F834]

What you have there is the pump+pump bracket. There is another support bracket that bolts to the engine. The support bracket has the slotted arc for adjustment. You can see if the part you have will work with your existing C2 support bracket, but in most cases the threaded hole that receives the tensioner bolt is not in line with the arc on the support bracket:



(Thompson/C2 bracket 6.9 IDI)


(Saginaw bracket 6.9 IDI)


On my 300 six, the engine bracket just so happened to accept the Saginaw pump bracket. However the next issue will be whether the clocking of the pump bracket will allow enough clearance with the engine. Again, the pictures below are comparing the two 6.9 IDI diesel support brackets, not Windsor V8, but you can see that the adjustment arc for the Saginaw is different (relative to the engine). Even if a person could work around the problem of the wrong adjustment arc radius, the bracket still won’t work because the pump hits the water inlet on the engine:



Your first step should be to go bolt on what you have. It costs you nothing but 20 minutes of your time to unbolt your C2 and lay it out of the way (don’t unhook any hoses) and see if your engine bracket has the right arc for the Saginaw bracket or if you have any clearance issues.

[ArdWrknTrk]

If you get it to bolt up make sure the pulley is in alignment with the crank sheave.
This is what was so important for me to get the 'stay' that bolts across the head on my 460.

I imagine I could have drilled another hole in the bracket and welded on a 3/4" spacer, but I didn't want to screw around with all that.

And ha ing the pivot in the right place meant I could get the correct belts. (Yes, the 460 has two belts on the power steering and water pump)

[Gary Lewis]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

(Yes, the 460 has two belts on the power steering and water pump)

On some of them.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

We've already made the distinction between polygroove and V-belt mounting.

I'm really surprised nobody here has a W with a Saginaw pump.

It does seem many, many members are rocking the 300-6..

[Gary Lewis]

Just giving you a hard time.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

No, I've got you.

I'm tempted to go looking for a van front dress illustration so we can get to the root of this (with part numbers)

[Gary Lewis]

This?  And then what do you need?

[Littlebeefy]

I'm a bit surprised that I couldn't find a complete synopsis of this swap on a carbed Windsor. I saw Gary has a spot for the details on the conversion by engine type. I'll put some notes down here they may prove useful to that effort

I went to the JY with the plan of taking a better, and hopefully working, version of the Saginaw system from what I thought was a serpentine E-150. When I got down there I found an 87 E-150 with a carbed 351W HO. First noteworthy news here is that they DID make the V-belt version at least that late.

I removed the pump and bracket and hoses.





There was a tensioner part as well (as shown in previous pictures), but I couldn't get it off with the tools that I had. I can't be completely certain, but it looks identical to the one that is installed on my Windsor right now:



I can go back and get it if I need to, but I'm going to check the existing tensioner before I go to the added trouble, and hopefully save others the trouble in the future.

One thing of importance are the screws and spacer. There were two screws holding the bracket on, a long one on the top and short one on the bottom (for tensioning). Behind the bracket (i.e. on the side facing towards the rear of the vehicle, there is a spacer. That spacer is almost exact 1.25". I don't have a micrometer that goes that big, so I can't tell you to the picometer, but if I had to replace it I'd go with a 1.25" spacer and call it a day:



I'm a little confused about the hoses/lines. When I pulled the Saginaw out, the two hoses that came from the pump went directly to the steering gearbox. Looking at my Bronco with the stock pump, the existing hoses do not go directly to the steering gear. One heads out of the pump and down towards the crossmember and the other seems to disappear into a suspension mount. I can still see on the steering gearbox where the hoses are attached, but they definitely route SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENTLY than in the E-150. I wasn't expecting that. What should I do? Can I tie into the existing plumbing or do I have to pull it out?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Your steering pump probably goes to a piece of tubing that wraps twice around the front of the crossmember as a cooler, giving the fluid a chance to dissipate heat (out in the airflow)

I used the E-Series line (with a couple of tweaks) to mate up to the steering box.
Because the Saginaw fittings are very different from the C2 pump.
Be sure you leave the pressure regulator fitting in the reservoir.

[Littlebeefy]

Okay, so I went through the diagrams and the info related to the swap in general and it looks like the return line routes through the cross-member for cooling like you said. I will try to reuse that line and just tighten it directly to the return inlet. Specs say the hose is the same diameter. I'm going to reuse the vans high pressure line on the Saginaw. It's dirty but it seems like it's in good enough shape to reuse. Then it is just a matter of contorting the metal pipe on the van's hose to fit the Bronco. They use the same steering gearbox so the pressure port threading should be the same between the two hoses. I'm not sure about the lengths of the lines given all the turns they take, so I guess I'll just sort it out when I get there.

I tried to "check" the Saginaw. The pulley turns but not without light resistance; however, when I spin the pulley, no fluid comes out of the hose. I would think that it should. Is that indicative of a problem? I poured out the fluid (it was completely full) and it was brown, darker than honey but lighter than Coke, and seemed free of debris. Not sure what else I can do to verify it's operable other than install it, fill it and try it.

I'll be sure to leave the pressure regulator fitting in the reservoir if I remove the high pressure hose. Thanks for the advice.

I'll take photos and post.

[ArdWrknTrk]

To use the van line in my truck it only needed to be bent around a bit from where it entered the box, and one other torsional bend was required to get it clocked correctly.
I bought a new van line for piece of mind. It was not expensive.

I'm using Type F as the recommended fluid for these systems.
It's okay to overfill at first,because you'll be purging air as you turn the wheel lock to lock.

Looking forward to seeing your progress!  

[Danmechanic]

So (what I gather) from the photo of the parts for the steering bracket that bolts to the pump is the same for both 351w and 460? Also i have the adjuster bracket on my 351w would that be the same used on the e series??

[Gary Lewis]

No, not at all.  The illustration shows how it mounts and gives the generic part number.  But all power steering brackets for all Ford products produced anywhere in the world have the same generic.  So you need a prefix, like E1TZ, and a suffix, like A.

As for the adjuster bracket, they are rarely the same between a pickup and a van.

So, what are you trying to do?  Find part numbers?  Or figure out what donor vehicle you need to find?

Basically, if you want to do a Saginaw conversion you need to find an E-Series van with the same engine as yours and get the parts.  Having said that, I do think the 302's and 351W's used the same brackets, but I'm not sure of that.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, I may have been WRONG!  This snippet from the catalog shows the bracket itself, and there are other bits and pieces.  However, if you look at the 83-86 vans with a V8 they all use the same bracket save for the diesel.  And the 87 uses the same one save for the 460.

[Danmechanic]

I am doing the saginaw conversion on my truck but there are no econolines around my area and nothing in the junk yards(edmonton alberta). I was able to head to a used parts store and all of the e-series pumps they had came off of a 460 and all of them had that same part number.

[Gary Lewis]

The pumps are pretty much the same.  But it is the brackets where the differences lie.  However, as said, it looks like all gas 8 cylinder engines for 83 - 86 take the same bracket: E3UZ 3A732-A.

[Rusty_S85]

That is the tensioner.  You put a 1/2" drive in the square hole to tighten your belt by rotating.  That looks like it would fit the Ford brackets for the non Saginaw style pumps.

[Danmechanic]

Picked up the bracket with e3ua-3a732-gb and it fits/lines up with the factory 351w bracket. Just need a larger spacer where the top mount bolt goes to the head. Really happy about this!!

[Gary Lewis]

Excellent!  Glad it worked out.