POLL: Open Up The Facebook Page(s)?

[Gary Lewis]

Gsmblue wrote

I think you run the risk of creating an alternative group by setting up on Facebook. You will have the people that only use the Facebook resources and then people who only use this forum.

It will be the Peoples Front of Judiah and the Judian Peoples Front all over again!

Disclaimer: I have not been on Facebook for some years and I love Monty Python.

That's funny!  But your parrot's dead.  (Reminds me of a meeting back when I was working.  Twenty or thirty people in the room and one guy said something about a parrot.  I responded "Your parrot's dead" and another guy said "He's only sleeping."  The rest of the room looked at us like we were crazy!)

On the risk of creating an alternative group, I think that's pretty much a given.  There are Facebook-only people, and there are forum-only people.  And then there are those, maybe 5 to 10%, who dabble in both.

Thinking through the advantages and differences, I see that the way I have my Facebook account set up I get a notification of someone posting on certain pages on Facebook, and always get a notification when someone responds to a post of mine.  But I don't get that on the forum as the notification comes in via email, so I have to go look.  And, I'm one of the few of the members silly enough to have subscribed to the whole forum, so I get email notification for anything posted.  So for me Facebook posts would be much more likely to elicit a quick response due to the notification.

But I can't do a Google search and find things on Facebook like I can the forum.  And documenting something on Facebook, like a build, would seem to be fruitless.

And, Facebookers seem to sign up for multiple Bullnose pages, where that doesn't seem to be as prevalent on forums.  So Bullnose pages tend to have very large memberships.  For instance, Bullnose Fords 80-86 has 40.8K members & Bullnose Ford Truck Group (80-86) has 14k.  And we have 696 as of this morning.  

So if you need a quick answer or want to sell something then one of those pages would probably be better.  However, with that large of membership there's no way you can have a good handle on who to trust, so how do you know which answer is correct?

Bottom Line: The only reason I can see starting another Bullnose page is if we think we can do it better, like keep the language in check and be uplifting rather than down-putting.  I'm going to have to watch a bit more closely and see which of the ones I'm part of that do a good job already.  I know one that does, and that's Keith's FORDification, but that's not Bullnose.  However, maybe some of the Bullnose ones already do.  If so, then it begs the question of why we'd want to get into Facebook.

What am I missing?

[Vic Roma]

Maybe it’s FOMO. Everyone and their dog is apparently on FB, because the perception is everyone else is on there too.

There is an obvious argument for using multiple platforms, but I believe you are neither desperately trying to flood the world with your product nor garner as many “Likes”, “Subscriptions”, or “love hearts” as possible in order to appear popular for popularity’s sake.

Facebook was a novelty, and from what I see, people who have a  Facebook page as their only online presence do so because it’s free (and FOMO), but they’re limited to the FB script. Clearly this is not you/your site, and I appreciate the importance of promotion. However, your visitors easily find your site (Google takes care of that, as do the countless mentions of your name on numerous other forums and websites), and those visitors that adhere to your “maturity” guidelines and stay, are not the flippant variety that spend every available minute scanning FB posts, like some “phoner” from a Stephen King novel. There seems to be few goldfish here, if any.

Your product is about the trucks, your members and their trucks, and the availability of all the information in existence about the trucks. Your site can benefit from the features of social media platforms without the need to be confined by them. I would work on perfecting BullnoseBible.com, and not worry about FB.

Ultimately, identify what is your goal, then adapt to the platform that helps you to achieve it.

[Gary Lewis]

Vic - That is very well said and well thought out.  Thanks.

But I had to look up Fear Of Missing Out.  That term, but not the feeling, was new to me.

Anyway, you are right, we are "neither desperately trying to flood the world with our product nor garner as many “Likes”, “Subscriptions”, or “love hearts” as possible in order to appear popular for popularity’s sake."  (I've changed "I" to "we" and "your" to "our" as I prefer to think we are in this together.)  Further, your statement that "our product is about the trucks, our members and their trucks, and the availability of all the information in existence about the trucks" is very accurate.  (Again, I made "your" into "our".)

Back to FOMO, I have had that feeling from time to time regarding these trucks.  But I've come to realize that there is far more of "it" going on than I could ever participate in.  So I've come to the conclusion that I'll scan the various FB pages to which I'm subscribed and chime in where I can easily help, which usually takes the form of giving them a link to the page or thread with the documentation/answer to their question.  But I usually do not get involved in on-going problem solving as there are far too many people on those pages that have poor suggestions or incorrect answers.

Bottom Line: I think this discussion has helped me realize that my computing time is best spent participating on this forum and in adding documentation to the site.  Then, as and when I have time, troll the Facebook pages looking for people who need the documentation we have and pointing them to it.

Thanks to all of you for your participation in this discussion.  

[Rembrant]

Gary,

Slightly off topic, but I think this has been discussed before...
Do you ever wonder if forum traffic is decreased because there are no automatic notifications of replies?

[Gary Lewis]

Using German, and maybe Max will translate: Jein.

Yes, I worry.  But, there are automatic notifications of replies.  Go to Bullnose Forum/Forum FAQ's and then the Email Notification tab where it is explained.

So mainly my worry is how to explain that to people.  And I'd love any help I can get in doing so.  I don't think many people understand this and are missing posts.

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

So mainly my worry is how to explain that to people.  And I'd love any help I can get in doing so.  I don't think many people understand this and are missing posts.

Ya, I hear ya. I was just curious if there was a real world effect or not. I think most forums subscribe you to a thread by default, and if you want out, you have to unsubscribe. This forum is the opposite of that. I'm used to it, and frankly...I check my forums often enough I don't really need subscriptions anyway...but I still like having them for certain topics.

I know on some of the FB threads, I will turn off notifications very quickly...lol. I don't mind being notified of a couple replies, but often times they go way off the rails and I can't turn the notifications off fast enough. It sucks that one might miss a couple good replies that way, but a lot of times they get drowned out in useless chatter.

[Ray Cecil]

Rembrant wrote

I dumped it for almost 5 years for the same reason, and only in the last year or two re-activated my account so that I had access to FB Marketplace and Vendor pages (where they post their sales and discount codes).

Otherwise, I would probably have stayed off it forever.

In any case, I too voted no. I think it would be too difficult to police and keep it as nice/calm/cool/collected as Gary's forum.

Same. I have a fake account "William Cecil" just to have access to marketplace. My only friends are the friendly old man accross the street, his son, and another old guy down the street who taught my youth baseball team one year 25 years ago.

AINT NOBODY GOT TIME TO BABYSIT FACESPACE OR MYBOOK!!!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Some brief explanation of blue v/ purple might help members understand what threads have been added to since they last visited, even if they haven't subscribed

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - That's a good point, the blue indicates threads which have posts you've not read, and the purple indicates threads on which you are current.  But it brings up the question of where to put that verbiage.  Do I add a tab on the FAQ's page?

And it brings up the bit about what "view" is best to use.  Here's a bit about what could be said:

There are two views to the forum:

Main View: This is the view you get when you go to the Main page or click on Bullnose Forum.  Here you see all of the folders and the pinned items, then below them you see the threads in the main section in chrono order.  However, you do not see things that have been posted in the folders.

Topics View: If you click the Topics View link you'll be shown things that have changed in chrono order, even if they are buried in one of the folders.  This is a handy way to keep up with what is being said w/o having to drill down into each folder.

.

Here's a shot of the Main View, and you can tell you are in Main View because it gives you the Topics View option:




Here's a shot of the Topics View, and you can tell you are in Topics View because it gives you the Main View option:

[Gary Lewis]

Since the poll is still open, let's get back to the idea of us having a Facebook page for a mo.  The votes are currently 10 against having one and 3 for, so it seems pretty well decided unless there's a landslide of votes in the next 5 days before the poll closes.

One idea of having a Facebook page was to help get the word out about our documentation.  And just to give you an idea how significant getting the word out can be, Bill/85lebaront2 brought the statement on the left to my attention yesterday.  It was an announcement made on the Bullnose Ford Truck Group (80-86) and included a blurb about this website.  And take a look at a snippet from our metrics (Documentation/Metrics) for yesterday, shown on the right.

I'm not saying we need to have a Facebook page.  Instead I've come to the conclusion that the best way to help the other Bullnose enthusiasts is to get the word out about the information we have via the existing Facebook pages.  That page has 14.2K users.  Another has 40.9K.  And so on.

In other words, let's enjoy what we have here on the forum but take every opportunity to let others know about the info available.

[Ray Cecil]

I think a lot of people dislike facebook and other social media platforms because of the lack of accountability for etiquett. Yes, FB can drive website traffic here, but so can word of mouth. Anytime I see another bullnose owner at a gas station, or talk to one trying to sell their bullnose online, I mention the website.

Gary, you will have to make a choice at some point. You want this website to be family friendly, and you want to enforce language and attitude ethics....well, there will be a point where if you want more membership you will have to automate language controls, or relax your rules. No one wants to constantly police the forum. This is a touchy subject. Some people see any attempt to tell them what they can and cant say as un-american censorship. You will lose a lot of members this way, and we already have seen people leave because of it. Truth is, as membership grows, you will spend more time policing than you will spend helping. Truth is, not everyone is a born again christian who understands what you are trying to achieve, or can understand your worldview. I do appreciate your goals, and its why I love this place, more than the wealth of info....and I am not religious.

 FB is full of people who would not agree with your world view, and who would not care if they muddy up your forum or not. People are much more brave and less respectful behind a keyboard than they are in person, you know that.

To facebook or not to facebook? Id say rely on your most dedicated members to spread word of mouth, and grow slowly if you want to retain tight language and ethics control. If you want a wave of membership, sell your soul to facebook (the devil bobby bouchett) and relax policing/forum etiquett.

I think as time goes on, pressure to move one way or the other will mount.

[Rembrant]

Ray Cecil wrote

I think a lot of people dislike facebook and other social media platforms because of the lack of accountability for etiquett.

There certainly is that, but my personal pet peeve is FB is just a constant barrage of questions and answers with no storage or database of any kind. What complicates that are the people that are not on those pages all the time...and therefore the same questions get asked all the time, over and over. A few months ago, one of the moderators on one of the FB Bullnose pages said he was going to be deleting a specific meme that was being shared. I forget what it was now, but somebody different was posting it every single day for like a month because none of them were paying enough attention to know that it had been posted the day before...lol. It was kind of funny...there was nothing wrong with the post itself, other than the annoying repetition, so the moderator started deleting them immediately after they were posted...lol.

So that same situation happens every day on various topics, and it extremely annoying.

On a Monday, a guy will ask the best way to lower his Bullnose. It turns into a discussion, and there's some good info, and some bad, but the guy usually gets what he needs and moves on.

On Wednesday, somebody will ask the same question again, and the whole thing starts all over again. Then again a couple days after that...and so on...

But that's the nature of FB, and how their "traffic" works. I remember being on forums years ago where if somebody new asked a question that was commonly answered, their post would get deleted. Not sure if you could do that on Facebook or not?

Pick a common topic. Lets say starter solenoids/relays. Do you want to discuss this topic every single day?...lol.

The other issue on Facebook, is keeping things on topic. Some poor guy asks for pics of a Flareside with a 2" lift and 31" tires so he can gauge if that is what he wants to buy. Within a half a dozen replies, there are pics of Styleside trucks with 2 ft lifts and 37 boggers on it...lol.

The etiquette part is not nearly as much of a concern for me, but the repetition and off-topic posts are. If that stuff can all be policed and moderated, I say go to town!

I am actually fine with what I call the slide-show content, like the side shot Saturday or Tailgate Tuesday pics, whatever. That's just enthusiasts enjoying their ride.

I say go to town Gary.

[Ray Cecil]

Great points Cory.

I think the nature (cleanliness and organization) of this forum is in direct conflict with the nature of FB, and most people. Like Cory said, the same posts over and over again. Who has time to police that? I think Gary is methodical, and likes organization. Im affraid FB is in direct conflict with that.

You can tell people all day long about using the search function, and to abide by forum rules. At the end of the day, most people would rather spend 1 minute asking a question and hope someone gives them the answer, than spent 30 minutes searching and reading through mindless opinion posts to try to decipher the truth. Its the path of least effort for most.

 I bet less than half of new members spend much time at all looking at the forum guidelines. Maybe I am wrong.

I think Garys documentation area that cannot be modified by users is a step in the right direction for limiting useless threads upon threads about the same worn out topics.

It aint gunna be perfect yall. Going to have to learn to live with a little bit of mess here and there.

[Rembrant]

Ray Cecil wrote

You can tell people all day long about using the search function...

I rarely ever use it myself, but LMGTFY.com is a dandy reply to some questions...lol, if you're OK with the Sarcasm of it.

Or this one: http://letmegooglethat.com/

From their About page:

"Let me Google that" is for all those people that find it more convenient to bother you with their questions than to Google it for themselves ;)

[Gary Lewis]

You guys are spot-on.

One thing that frustrated me in the early days on FTE was the repetitious questions.  New guy pops up just to ask "that" question.  No research and we didn't have any documentation to point him to, so we answered the same question time after time.

That's when I started documenting things, although the first effort was via the stickies but that was just opinions and/or links, and then the photo albums until FTE irreparably broke them and refused to acknowledge it.  So I built the website, which is not subject to the changing rules of someone else.  And my vow was that if I was going to answer a question from Ford's documentation I'd put it on the site before answering it.  Which is how we have so much documentation.  (Quick aside: On one of the FB pages a guy said "I want whatever book Gary is using."  A book?    Try maybe 100?)

So now I can usually answer the question via a link to Ford's documentation.  Yesterday's question was about towing.  Seemingly hundreds of people answered with their opinions, many of which were wrong.  Easy peasy - Documentation/Specifications/Towing.  Go argue with Ford if you want to argue.

But, to the issue of policing.  There are four admins, all of which have a good understanding of what is meant by "obscenities" in the guidelines.  And there are plenty of you regulars that know as well.  So why do I have to read everything to ensure it is up to snuff?  You are empowered to correct the person.  And if you don't want to then tell me.  Many of you have my phone # and can call or text.  Let's make this a community watch zone.  I usually don't address the situation on-line, but send the offender a private email asking that the post be edited.

As for people not caring about the guidelines, they won't be members very long if they don't.  We aren't trying for as many members as we can possibly have.  We are going for a group of people who follow the guidelines and enjoy helping each other.

You've surely seen the many instances where someone is chomping at the bit to ask his burning question and doesn't follow the emailed directions to go to the New Member Start Here folder, read the guidelines, and then post an introduction in that folder.  Sorry, but there were instructions in that email.  They aren't like traffic lanes in Rome, a "suggestion".  They are instructions.  If you won't follow them then it isn't likely you'll follow the guidelines.

So I'm asking all of you to help me police things.  If you see something that I would probably think bad then bring it to my attention.  I'll address it.  That's why I earn the big bucks.  

[Ray Cecil]

Yeah...well I am a huge fan of sarcasm. So, I get it.

Also, I am just as guilty as anyone else about not using a search.

Its the nature of forums. Its the nature people.

Sometimes, people REALLY dont have much time. Older retired guy need to keep that in mind. Some of us younger dudes work 12 hours a day, take care of a lot of things, people and animals. Sometimes a guy might really need a quick answer.

[Gary Lewis]

Ray Cecil wrote

Older retired guy need to keep that in mind.

This older retired guy has never said "Let me Google that for you" or "Have you used the forum search feature?"  Its you younger guys talking about that.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Chris seems to use LMGTFY often enough, when the answer has been posted dozens of times.

Maximum tire size, tank or oil capacity, whatever...

If you can't bother to enter a term in the search bar, but you can type up a whole wall of text post.... then argue because the answers you get aren't what you want, well........   🙅   💋🍑

[Ray Cecil]

Gary Lewis wrote

Ray Cecil wrote

Older retired guy need to keep that in mind.

This older retired guy has never said "Let me Google that for you" or "Have you used the forum search feature?"  Its you younger guys talking about that.  

Yeah, Ive never said that either.

[Ray Cecil]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

.....  🙅   💋🍑

Very creative.