PMGR Starter Trigger Wire Size

[Rembrant]

Gents,

I'm just wiring up some loose ends on my 1980 F150 project, and that includes the PMGR starter that I scavenged from a 1996 F150 at the junkyard a couple years ago.

I noticed in the instructions here on the forum that a #10 wire was used for this. Is this size wire required? I will buy some if I need it, but the reason I ask is that I have a roll on hand of 14awg 600v TEW wire, and was wondering if that would be sufficient for the trigger wire?

[kramttocs]

12awg is the smallest I've seen in any official doc (including the Powermaster paper mine came with).

I know, doesn't help with the 14awg question

My vote would be with the 10. I went with 8 since, similar to your 14, I had it on hand.


Update: Just did some more browsing to see if I could find anything other than 12 or 10 and did come across 18awg in a diagram. Was for a fox body. I'd still do the 10  

[Rembrant]

kramttocs wrote

12awg is the smallest I've seen in any official doc (including the Powermaster paper mine came with).

I know, doesn't help with the 14awg question

My vote would be with the 10. I went with 8 since, similar to your 14, I had it on hand.


Update: Just did some more browsing to see if I could find anything other than 12 or 10 and did come across 18awg in a diagram. Was for a fox body. I'd still do the 10

Thanks for the reply Scott. My brother in-law just happened to call right after I posted this, and he is a technical guy (at work, and at home) and he said that he ran 14ga wire...like the rest of us, lol, because he had it on hand, but he said he also tested it at the same time. He said that the relay only drew about 2.5amps (in rush) and once closed was even less.(That was not on a Ford starter, but a similar GM starter...could be completely different for all I know).

The reason I was curious is that the factory trigger wire on my '84, and this '80, is really small...maybe 18ga?

Anyway, I understand that bigger is certainly better. Maybe I'll run the 14ga that I have and test it myself and see what the meter says. If 14ga is not enough, it's no problem to change it out.

Heck, I don't even know if the engine will run, but I'll probably give the starter a good workout trying.

[kramttocs]

2.5amps. Good to have a number for it, even if from a GM starter. I was hoping to find something like that when searching but never saw any reference to what the solenoid pulled.
With that number, hard to find a reason to not use the on hand 14.

Often hear the 'grind it til you find it' phrase but not many about starting... how about 'turn it til you burn it'?

[swampedout]

Throw parts til it starts!

[kramttocs]

 

[ArdWrknTrk]

Reference is right here on the forum.
Gary has the test sheet from one of my (now) 5 PMGR starters.  

40A to pull, 13A to hold....

I used #12, but what's the worst that can happen?

[kramttocs]

Thanks Jim!
Forgot that you tested this but now that you mention it I recall a discussion how one needed to be careful if replacing the fender mounted relay with another offering.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I went to the 'upgrades' page, to post the Datasheet but Gary must have it somewhere else....

I've now got my starter solenoid wired through a 40A cube relay in my new 6 position power distribution box.

[Gary Lewis]

Try Documentation/Engines/Starters for the info on your DB starter.  But there's also the page at Documentation/Electrical/PMGR Starter Wiring.  And that's the page where it says to use #10 wiring as the starter trigger wire.  Looks like we need some re-organization, revisions, etc.

[ArdWrknTrk]

It's another one of those dropdowns I can't access on a touchscreen...  

[85lebaront2]

Jim, and others, FWIW, our 1990 Town Car (the one that first gave me the idea of putting them on the 300, 302 and 351W) had a regular Bosch relay for the PMGR starter. Chrysler also uses a very similar starter and later models use the same Bosch relay to connect to it. They use a 14ga wire to the starter from the relay.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yep, a regular 'Bosch style' cube relay, just the 40A version as supplied with the E-series Ford blower relay kit as sold by U-techcenter.

[Gary Lewis]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

It's another one of those dropdowns I can't access on a touchscreen...  

Which page is that, Jim?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Documentation>engines takes me directly to a page with simple plan drawings of a V-8 & I-6.

[Gary Lewis]

Try it now, please.  

EDIT: Make sure you refresh.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, I can get there now!  

[Gary Lewis]

Good!  I need to spend some time going back over the web site and fixing all of those pages that have others below them.  

[FuzzFace2]

I got to ask why wire in a cube relay when the 80 truck came with one on the fender already
Move the large cable from the out put of the "fender relay" to the same side as the battery cable is on and the other end of the cable goes to the starter large lug.

Now take that 10 ga wire and put it on the out let side of the fender relay and run it down to the small trigger lug on the starter.

The fender relay should still have the trucks trigger wire on the "S" lug.

When you go to start the  truck the fender relay will close sending power down the 10 ga wire to trigger the starter.
My drag car is set up this way and works great.
Beside you could use a cheap fender relay as not much amps are going through it.
Dave ----

[ArdWrknTrk]

Cause, I needed that real estate between the Jack and battery for my PDC anyhow.
Why not just use one of those relays to drive my starter?
All the wires were already there.