Oswald: Nothing Special's '97 F-250 Crew Cab

[Nothing Special]

I thought I'd already started a thread for my pickup, but I guess I've just put stuff for this truck in the "what have you done..." thread.  So I guess I'll start one now.  As I mentioned in my motorhome thread, Coming home from a recent trip to Walt Disney World we made a detour so I could pick up a tailgate from a junkyard outside of Kansas City.

That story actually starts back in September when I started looking for a decent tailgate using an on-line junkyard search (car-part.com).  I quickly found this tailgate in Kansas City.  It looked good with a good price, so I talked with the owner of the junkyard.  He looked at the gate and sent me some pictures.  It seemed like a good option so I asked him about shipping it to me.

And I kept asking him about shipping it for the next couple of months.  Apparently he wasn't too excited about doing that.  So when we were going on this trip I looked into it and found that it was only about 100 miles farther to go through Kansas City than our normal route and it actually fit in pretty well, where we could stop Sunday night near Kansas City, be at the junkyard when it opened at 8:30 and not waste a lot of time.  It did mean getting home at 5:00 PM instead of around noon, but it wasn't a ridiculous detour.  So we made arrangements that he'd hold it for me and I'd be there in about 2 weeks.

Well, it turned out that the junkyard owner that I'd been talking to called in sick that day.  The guy that opened up at 8:30 knew nothing of our arrangement, or where the tail gate might be.  After he asked me if it would be too much trouble to come back another day (yes, it would) he let me go out in the yard to look for it (the owner had told me it was still in the bed of the truck).  I found it pretty quick and carried it up to the office.  There was a little more confusion when it came to paying for it, but we got that figured out to everyone's satisfaction and I was on the road before 9:00.  Of course the road I was on was very hilly and narrow (about 17' total width, with pretty good drops right off the pavement) so it wasn't the greatest place to be driving a motorhome!  But we made it back to the highway without any real issues.

Anyway, with that story safely in the past, today I finally got around to putting the new gate on my truck.  The old gate was pretty sway-backed and the latch was pretty balky when I got the truck nine years and 70K miles ago.  Neither of those issues improved with time, and now it's gotten to the point where rusty metal chunks fall off it almost every time I close it.  So it was time to do something.

Here are a few pictures of the original gate (sorry for the poor focus, camera issues I guess):






Calling the "new" gate "rust free" is probably a bit of a stretch, but it's in great condition compared to my old gate, or anything I could find locally:






I sprayed some Fluid Film in the bottom of the gate, so hopefully it will hold up for quite a while.

It had a plastic liner attached using many of the screw holes for the latch access panel.  But a few of those screws were missing and I didn't like having the plastic panel anyway, so I took it off.  That meant having to steal a bunch of the screws for the latch access panel from my old gate, but that wasn't a big deal.

It also had a stainless cap which I did want to keep because it would protect the top of the gate from rubbing against the topper lift gate.  But I couldn't close the topper lift gate with that piece on, so I had to take it off.

And the latch on the passenger side seems to fall into the latched position sometimes when the gate is open, then you have to unlatch it before you can close the gate.  I may end up stealing that latch from my old gate too.

It's not the right color (that would've been too much to hope for).  And it doesn't have the blue oval or F-250 Heavy Duty emblems that the original gate had.  I might spray paint it next summer so it's a little closer in color.  But the rest of the truck isn't much better than the old gate, so it's not going to be pretty no matter what.  And I'll keep the old gate in case I want to get the emblems (or any other parts) off it at some point.

But it fits (of course), it's solid and straight, and the latch works well enough that Lesley can open it (she was never able to get the balky latch on the old gate to open).  So I'm happy with it!

[Gary Lewis]

Well done!  

Man, that old 'gate looks bad!  I forgot where you are - in the rust belt.  The buckle thereof?

But it seems like you'll be able to meld the two gates to make one that does everything right.  Makes the detour well worth it.  

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  I forgot where you are - in the rust belt.  The buckle thereof?....

Yeah, pretty much

This truck spent the first part of it's life in New Mexico, so it wasn't terrible when I bought it.  But it had spent some time in Gary, Indiana, and was just starting to have the rust come through the bedsides above the rear tires.  And it's gotten a lot worse in the last 9 years.

[grumpin]

Nice find, glad it worked out!

Man, it’s been awhile since I was in a salt the roads environment (Indiana). I don’t think I could do it again.

What I call rust, the rust belt folks wouldn’t see!

I probably wouldn’t consider buying a vehicle from the coast out here. Pretty spoiled in that regard.

[grumpin]

Here’s an example of way too rusty to me.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm with you, Dane.  I don't think I could live where vehicles disintegrate.  As we drove through Michigan there were vehicles that I consider "new" and they had holes in them.  

[Nothing Special]

That's not Minnesota rust!  The sun never gets high enough here to bake paint, so we never get that kind of look on the top.  But the brine that collects in pinch points eats through from the back side.  So a panrel can still look really good except for one small spot of rust.  But there's no solid metal for 6" around that spot, the paint is just holding it together.

As to not wanting to live in the rust belt, I suppose we all get used to what we get used to.  It's not like I like having vehicles rust out, but I don't like the heat of the south, and I actually like the range of seasons Minnesota has.  And Lesley says she's never leaving the state.  So I guess I'm stuck with the rust.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, you are blessed with her, and if she's not moving from MN then I guess you aren't either.  

But I like the four seasons we get here.  Enough cold to say we had winter, and more than enough heat to know you had summer.  And essentially no salt on the roads.  

[Nothing Special]

Time for another update on the pickups project thread.  Not a very fun or exciting project this time but necessary. Last Sunday I was out running errands. When I got back to my truck it wouldn't turn over. Just a hot "click" from the starter solenoid. I tried using my jumper cables to jump across the solenoid. I got a spark as I touched the second terminal so the starter was drawing current, but it wasn't turning.  4:00 on a Sunday afternoon wasn't a fun time for that to happen, but I wasn't that far from home so I walked home and was able to find an open AutoZone that had the right starter in stock. Then my son was able to help me tow it home so I could work on it in my driveway instead of the Target parking lot. By about 8:30 I had the new starter in and it started right up.

I had replaced the starter not that long after getting the truck, so it was only about 9 years old. I'm a little disappointed in that, but oh well, it should be good for at least another 9 years now.

[Gary Lewis]

Bummer!  But things like that do see to happen at inopportune times. Glad it worked out

What brand was on it that failed?

[Nothing Special]

No idea on the brand of the old one.  I think the new one was Duralast???  Whatever AutoZone had in stock.

[AmericanSavage]

Just a thought:  that tailgate rusted at the bottom could be saved—it would be cheap to buy some sheet metal, and either roll it on a wheel, OR bend it into shape over the original with light clamping, etc…and spot welded into place.  Then light bondo.  

I did mine that was similar shape.  

Loved the truck, and the rusted one—OSPHO would definitely halt in its tracks all that rust.

[Nothing Special]

I have my doubts about stopping rust, ever.  Inside the 'gate isn't very open, so getting the rust inside treated completely would be challenging at best.  And if it isn't it'll come right back.

Plus there's the fact that it isn't close to straight.

I seriously doubt I'll ever put any time into repairing it.  I think it's way past my abilities.

[Nothing Special]

As I discussed in this thread, it was getting time to do something about the rusty condition of this truck.  I decided to try to restore it.  I'm intending to cut out the rusted metal from the cab and weld in patch panels, and probably replace the bed and front fenders.  I'm also planning on replacing the 460 and E4OD.  Right now I'm leaning toward a 351W and a 5 speed manual trans (possibly a ZF5, possibly an NV4500, possibly a Tremec...).

Those are the current plans, we'll see what really happens!

At this point all I've done is put it out to pasture.  As was discussed near the end of that thread above, I now have a 2007 Dodge 2500 with a 6.7L Cummins and a 6 speed auto.   That's going to be "my truck" until I'm finished with the '97 Ford (in whateverway I end up being finished!).  I don't have room for 2 trucks, a Bronco and a motorhome in my suburban driveway, so the '97 has to go away until I'm ready to work on it.  So today it towed my Bronco up to my parents cabin.  I don't think it realized that it wasn't coming back home with us!  (we drove the Bronco home)

Hopefully the restoration will get started late this summer.

[grumpin]

Yup, here it is, happily towing your Bronco and you abandon it!

[Gary Lewis]

I sorta know the feeling.  As a kid my dad and I did a lot of squirrel hunting.  He'd park me under a tree, tell me not to move, and go away with a promise to come back and get me.  He always did, but there was that thought in my mind of "What if he doesn't come back?"  It takes about 30 minutes of absolute stillness for a squirrel to think you are gone, and that is a long time to worry.  

Seriously though, why go with a 351 instead of the 460?  And a manual vs the auto?  Just curious.

[Nothing Special]

The first time I took my older son bird hunting (he was about 5) I was keeping him with me.  We were getting into a lot of woodcock (we moved 9 in a 45 minute hunt).  When one would flush I was trying to keep track of him and the dog to avoid shooting either one (or shooting too close to my son and scaring him withte noise), but all that disctraction meant I kept missing the bird.  My dog would chase the bird , which was typical, but typically I could call her back.  On this day she was finding and pointing another bird before I could get her back.  Not normally a problem, but I wanted this to be a short hunt, and she kept pulling us farther away from the truck.  So one time as the dog was on point, instead of bringing my 5 year old with me I told him to just wait.  That gave me a better chance to kill the bird (which I did) so my dog made the retrieve and got back to me.  Then i could send her back toward the truck (and my son).  We picked my son up and got back to the truck pretty easily.  Here he is holding that bird.



On the truck, the trans question is easy.  I don't like autos.  I only got an auto in this truck because I hadn't found a crew cab with a gas engine and manual trans in 3 years of looking.  I want one that's "really a 4 speed with an unusable 1st gear", because that seems better to me than having something like the NV3550 that's in my Bronco.  That's a 3 speed with unuseable 2nd and 4th gears (gears are so close together that I go from 1st to 3rd to 5th).

For the engine, I simply don't need a 460 and I don't want to keep feeding it.  I keep trying to talk myself into a diesel (and it would be a Cummins 6BT if I go that route), but in my experience they are more expensive to feed than my 460.  The 460 gets 9-10 mpg while my 7.3L PowerStroke and now my 6.7L Cummins get about 13 mpg on more expensive fuel.  I'm thinking I can get 12~13 with a 351.

A Chevy LS is also in the running.  And I keep wondering about the Cummins 3.8L.  I don't really know what I'll eventually land on, but right now I'm leaning toward the 351.

And before you tell me that you get 13 mpg with the 460 in Big Blue, I'm not talking about steady freeway driving.  I'm talking about my day-to-day usage.  I got about 14 mpg with the 351s in my '85 F-250, and '95 F-150 SuperCab.  Yes, they are lighter than my '97 F-250 crew cab.  And maybe I'll be disappointed in the mileage of a 351 in this truck.  But I know I'll be OK with the power.

[Gary Lewis]

I don't think I could concentrate on shooting if I had my son to worry about.  You have a very short period of time to be on the bird, and stopping to think about where someone is would cause problems.  So I do understand the problem - and the reason for missing the birds.

As for the engine, I also understand that reasoning.  I've often thought I'd have been better off with a 351W - until I hook onto the trailer and load an E250 conversion van on it.  Or head up steep passes in the mountains and don't have to downshift.  Then the 460 seems worth it.  But it doesn't get 13 MPG on the average.  Instead we got 12.1 average for 1750 miles of mostly highway driving and some city and a few forest roads.

And I also understand the reasoning on the transmission.  The ZF5 wide-ratio certainly qualifies as a 4-speed with an unusable 1st gear - until you hook onto a loaded trailer.  And even then I did start in 2nd a couple of times yesterday on accident, and even got into 5th a few times, but the 460 is probably what made that work.

So a 351W/ZF5 combo might be sweet.  Enough engine for most conditions in 2nd through 5th, but enough transmission to start and pull a load in 1st through 4th.

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  So a 351W/ZF5 combo might be sweet.  Enough engine for most conditions in 2nd through 5th, but enough transmission to start and pull a load in 1st through 4th.

That's my hope!

My '85 F-250 had an NP435 and 3.54 gears behind the 351.  That gave it a tow rating of -900 lbs (GCWR of something like 7800 lbs minus the GVWR of 8700 lbs, hey don't blame me, it's Fords ratings!).  It was always very competent up to a GCW of about 12,000.  That's about the highest I ever happened to go with it.  I'd have been comfortable towing even more, but never needed to.  But it did need another gear in the 2 - 3 - 4 range.  So I think a 5 speed with ZF5-like ratios would be pretty good with it.

I know I'm going to lose speed with a load on steep hills.  But I so rarely do that, so it's not worth having a truck that's optimized for it.

[Gary Lewis]

Ford's ratings strongly favor the auto trannies, but I'd not seen one with a minus number.  

To me the manuals should be able to tow more than the autos since there's so much less heat generated.  And especially when comparing a 3-speed auto to a 5-speed manual, or even a 4-speed auto vs the 5-speed manual.  The heat generated in that torque converter is lost power.

Big Blue is rated for 11,500 lbs with a manual and 15,000 lbs with an auto.  With the van yesterday we were probably at 15,000 lbs and it handled it very confidently.  But the wide gearing makes all the difference.