Operation NP435 & Over Drive

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, those tables are on the page at Documentation/Driveline/Speedometer Gears & Cables.  (And yes, I did a 301 redirect from http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/speedometer-gears.html to http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/speedometer-gears--cables.html.)

[kramttocs]

Great update Dave!

Gary - which part of the chart? I can't say I have the answer but did some research on this when installing the GVOD.

[Gary Lewis]

My question has to do with speed control.  It appears that there is one "upper" cable of 24 3/8" for 1980 - 85, and that there are several "lower" cables of varying lengths depending on the application that go with it.

But in '86 they changed to a one-piece design.  So, what does the one-piece design look like?  Does it have the transducer permanently installed in it?

I pulled Huck, the 1990 truck, apart and thought that it still had a two-piece design.  I'm confused.  

[kramttocs]

I was hoping that was the case and I can actually help with that one :)
Yes, in 86 they changed the vss. I looked at a handful of 86 F250 4wd's and they all were like this but can't make the claim for applications outside of that. It is a single long cable that goes from the dash cluster to right at the tcase. Between the cable and the actual hole in the tcase is the vss. It can be removed with a clip although some jy ones were definitely easier than others.

Just did a quick look in the shop and am not finding the one I took apart as a test but I am pretty sure it's E9TZ-9E731-A



Not a great photo but here it is on Camano. In this case it goes into an adapter for the gvod vs straight into the tcase.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, good to know and I'll add some verbiage to that page to help others understand.

However, I think you have the wrong part number.  Looks like 1986 through 4/89 they used E3AZ 9E731-A.  But apparently as of 4/89 they changed to E9TZ 9E731-A.  And, it looks like they are interchangeable as the cable didn't change at the same time.

So I'll add a new tab for the sensor and include this table:

[kramttocs]

I actually tried to find the E3 but everything showed the E9 interchange so I used it but you are correct - unless replaced at some point, people should have the E3. These will be more great pages to have on the doc site.

[Gary Lewis]

Scott - Please take a look at the page now and see if you agree.  The name has changed a bit: Documention/Driveline/Speedometer Gears, Cables, & Sensors.

And, note that I added "85" as the ending date for the early sensor as the MPC said "1980/" and clearly it wasn't used past 1986.

Hopefully this clarifies what was a bit of a murky area for me.  But if not, let's get it clear.

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

Dave - On the drive gears, I think they do interchange.  Here's a snippet of the 1985 MPC listing of drive gears.  Two things to point out.  First, that they called out which tranny got what gear.  Second, that the T-18 & 19 with 3.07 gears got C80Z-B.




Now here's the 1981 listing.  From what I read in the transmission application charts the T-18 wasn't introduced until 1983, so the 4/M/T was the NP435.  And it used C80Z-B with certain gearing.

Should the 2nd part read "Now here's the 1981 listing.  From what I read in the transmission application charts the NP435 wasn't introduced until 1983, so the 4/M/T was the T-18.  And it used C80Z-B with certain gearing." I know looking over the number you can go

Now what concerns me is in the top chart that shows both the T-18 & NP435 and the white gear (7 tooth?) has 2 different part numbers between them. I would think if they interchanged they would have the same part numbers no?

I did pull the speedo cable out to remove the driven gear and looked at the NP435 drive gear, it is white and it feels like the gear teeth are worn down. Could be why the speedo was jumping?
So it will need to be replaced when I get a longer cable and that is when I will try the swap of the drive gears.

Thanks for all the help on this.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

No, the second part should have read something like "Since both the T-18 and NP435 were used in 1981, as shown by the chart below, then for Ford to simply say 4/M/T must mean both transmissions take the same gear."

Now, all I know is what I read in the MPC, so that may be wrong.  But that appears to be correct.

And I was wrong about when the T-18 was introduced.  

As for the speedo jumping, it could be a bad drive gear.  But if it didn't do it before I'd bet it is something else.  I'd make sure the cable is long enough and well lubricated before I replaced the drive gear.

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

And on the speedo cable length, here's what the MPC says.  And I don't have this in the documentation so will put it on the Documentation/Driveline/Speedo Gears page.  But, I haven't gotten my mind around what these charts are telling me, so would appreciate it if someone would enlighten me.




However, there is also the cables for trucks with speed control, which are here:

So on this cable my truck is an early 81 non-speed control MT.
I measured the SROD cable as it was out of the truck still on the transmission and came up with 70"
By the chart it could be 71 or 73.25" so I am going with the 71 as a start.
My thinking is using a 4x4 cable should give me the extra cable to reach back that 7" and not make the cable tight and that cable is 90" more than enough.

Now the only one I found a size on was Auto Zone at 95".
LMC did not list size and listed the same part number for both 4x2 & 4x4 trucks?
So thinking AZ is the way to go at 95".

Thanks again
Dave ----

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

No, the second part should have read something like "Since both the T-18 and NP435 were used in 1981, as shown by the chart below, then for Ford to simply say 4/M/T must mean both transmissions take the same gear."

Now, all I know is what I read in the MPC, so that may be wrong.  But that appears to be correct.

And I was wrong about when the T-18 was introduced.  

As for the speedo jumping, it could be a bad drive gear.  But if it didn't do it before I'd bet it is something else.  I'd make sure the cable is long enough and well lubricated before I replaced the drive gear.

Looking at the chart I can see both trans were used in 81 but I am going to throw a wrench into the gears. I just remembered seeing a tag on the side of the NP435 with a year of "85".
I will go back over the charts to see if that changes anything, don't think it will.

The cable is on order should be here after 4pm tomorrow, 95" should be more than long enough.
The drive gear I can feel with a rubber glove on is low / worn in the middle so I don't trust it.
Between the drive gear & tight cable, the 2 things that has changed, that could be the bounce.
Thanks.
Dave ----

[1986F150Six]

kramttocs wrote

I was hoping that was the case and I can actually help with that one :)
Yes, in 86 they changed the vss. I looked at a handful of 86 F250 4wd's and they all were like this but can't make the claim for applications outside of that. It is a single long cable that goes from the dash cluster to right at the tcase. Between the cable and the actual hole in the tcase is the vss. It can be removed with a clip although some jy ones were definitely easier than others.

Just did a quick look in the shop and am not finding the one I took apart as a test but I am pretty sure it's E9TZ-9E731-A



Not a great photo but here it is on Camano. In this case it goes into an adapter for the gvod vs straight into the tcase.

Boy, there are not cheap:



https://www.ebay.com/i/293492688928?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=293492688928&targetid=4581046486094194&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=395665087&mkgroupid=1239149814203389&rlsatarget=pla-4581046486094194&abcId=1129776&merchantid=51291&msclkid=6548d467ef511833f6a08a8c2cdb03ac

https://www.ebay.com/i/293079525218?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=293079525218&targetid=4581046486094194&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=395665087&mkgroupid=1239149814203389&rlsatarget=pla-4581046486094194&abcId=1129776&merchantid=51291&msclkid=289ffdf26ff010e48641a319ac7ab736

[kramttocs]

No joke! There's a reason I was crawling under jy trucks looking for some spares and trying to learn how to take them off non-destructively

[FuzzFace2]

So I drained the break in oil, I thing it should be called "flush oil". The drain plug has a magnet and it had metal chips on it. There was also a large chip in the ledge of the drain pan and when I looked at the oil it looked shinny like metal was floating in it.

I put in the 2 qt's of the Redline MT-90 gear oil that came with the OD unit.
The oil is pretty thin but it is what they sent so in it went.

I pulled the speedo driven gear so I would not hurt it, it is new, and I checked the drive gear and it is worn in the center and will be replaced. So far I think the T18 gear will fit the NP435 and with the driven gear that worked the speedo should be on the money like before.

I ordered a longer speedo cable 95" where mine from the parts truck was 70" so should be more then long enough.
I put as a guess 60 miles on it both local (50 MPH limit) to high way that could have been 70+ MPH.
Dave ----

[kramttocs]

Did they say there would be chips or are you contacting them?

[Gary Lewis]

Yipes!  I guess not!

I wonder how Ford handled the wiring length change.  Did they add a jumper to go from the connector the 1980 - 85 trucks have under the hood down to the new location?  Or is the harness itself different?

I ask because if they used a jumper you could get one of the early sensors and speedo cables and revert to the old way.

[grumpin]

I like that Redline MT90 oil. It was recommended to put in my 4Runner manual transmission.

An improvement in cold, hot and in between shifting!

[FuzzFace2]

kramttocs wrote

Did they say there would be chips or are you contacting them?

Nope not a thing anywhere from them or others.
I guess I should talk to them to CMA should it crap out on me.
Gives me something to do today when they open

grumpin wrote

I like that Redline MT90 oil. It was recommended to put in my 4Runner manual transmission.

An improvement in cold, hot and in between shifting!

I don't think I would have issues when cold as it does not get that cold here.
What does worry me is the Lucas oil I put in the trans is rated GL-4 / GL-5 and they say the GL-5 is not good for yellow metal in trans.

Now someone said use Purple Max as it said will not hurt yellow metal but I looked at it yesterday and it is rated GL-4 / GL-5, the same as Lucas but has on the "bottle will not hurt" so what gives?
I did find on the shelf Penzoil rated for GL-3 could that be used?
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

I think there are several ways to meet various ratings such as GL-5.  And some of those uses chemicals that hurt yellow metal and some don't.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The RP Synchromax is obviously formulated for yellow metal, and yet has that characteristic evil smell of chlorine and sulfur.