One Piece at a Time - Firewood truck project

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thank you for documenting your process.  

It will help other members in the future!

[StraightSix]

Jim,
I hope so! Learning together is always the easy way.

It may not look like much, but Im on top of the world.


My donor harness arrives Wednesday. By then, I should have an evtm, the rest of my miscellaneous wiring supplies including relays and fuse blocks to duplicate what I did in the bronco, as well as all of the components to wire up the HEI setup. I hope to do top notch harness work that would make anyone proud; my early electrical work in the bronco was not excellent. I've since redone that, I hope to echo those lessons here.

I'm hoping to have most of the engine bay amenities, a battery, and a working charging circuit by Friday. An assembled IGN system shortly thereafter. My 4180 rebuild kit came in today, so a carb/cold air intake rebuild/inspection may be next.

At this point, I'm focused first on getting the engine to run and the electrical system reasonably sorted. To accomplish that, I still need:
-radiator
-fuel pump setup (may run out of a jerry can at first)
-wire starter
-exhaust
-belts

Once the engine will idle, I hope to be able to drop it in 4LO granny and get it into a workshop bay. That's where I'll feel better about things like timing chains and dropping fuel tanks. I'd rather not do invasive engine work outdoors if I can avoid it.

Fuel pumps - I've been reading about the fueling systems in these trucks. I have a mechanical pump, so I assume I don't have hot fueling. Bummer, that seems like a well thought out system. After years of mechanical pump frustrations on the bronco, I know I want an electric pump. The easiest thing would be an aftermarket pump straight to the carb powered by my add on electrical architecture. I notice that my mechanical pump has three lines, two from the tank (single tank) and one to the carb. Did these have a built in return line? If so, plumbing in a regulator and return would be very easy. Does it hurt the modern frame mount fuel pumps to dead head them? Is a return regulator worth the effort?

On exhaust - I'm considering paying a muffler shop to put an exhaust on the truck. I assume this will run me about $1500 in today dollars. I recognize that everything from the muffler forward may have to be redone with an eventual EFI conversion. As far as the sound or tone, I dislike droning noise and just want the truck to run well. Couldn't be less concerned with the sound so long as it's not unreasonably loud. With that in mind, is there a real benefit to a true dual exhaust? Is a crossover pipe useful? Is 2.5 to the muffler and a single 3 or dual 2-2.25 out the back sufficient? Even with efi and a fully built block, I still just want a truck engine that pulls below 4000.

Thanks for following along! More to come this week!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Wow, you've got a LOT going on!

I'll try to address everything, but I'm on a phone, so please LMK if I miss something.

Yes, the mechanical pump has a return.
Fuel pressure out is on the order of 5-6psi but the manual calls for a quart in 15 seconds (... gallon a minute, or 60 gallons an hour!)

My pump has only failed once in the 3⁷ years I've owned my truck.
The downside to not having any complicated wiring is the time it takes to pull a prime if I run out of gas.
I have 2 tanks but neither sender reads right. I have become very attuned to the 'no fuel' signs and fast to throw my switch.
If I'm rolling I just leave it in gear and pull on the hazards.
It will catch before I get to a stop.

I don't think most rail mounted pumps care about deadheading, but I'm sure that some might.
Just a month or so ago I installed a cheap click-clack inline pump on a rotted out plow jeep.
The owner griped that they could hear it
(like the missing exhaust and plow without skids on asphalt aren't going to be louder?)
My reply, "at least you know it's working!"

I don't think the dual 2 1/2" in 3" out exhaust is a hindrance even at 100+ mph.
The factory flattened oval can is though.
So try to find something free flowing with large volume and exit it behind the rear wheel.

Never seen a point to true duals with a crossover unless you have tuned & equal length headers in a 10/10ths race application.
It's definitely not doing anything for anyone driving a pickup on the street.

It must be nice to see the evolution of your wiring skills!
There was a guy here who was a aviation/aerospace tech.
He did beautiful harness lacing! 🤩
(Then there's us mortals.. )

I just gave away all my harness building kit. One of those Home Depot totes full of wire from 16-0, loom, various crimpers, heat guns, shrink terminals, tywraps, two tywrap guns, fox&hound, multiple rolls of Tesa tape and that self fusing silicone in black, grey, white,
Some smaller bins of relays, switches & sockets, copper lugs and a slam type crimper for those bigger grounds & starter cables etc..
I think I scared him!  😱

[StraightSix]

Hi Guys!

I had another big win on the truck last night. I laid in my ebay engine bay harness, dropped in a battery, and most of the electronics in the truck are now live. I ran a single power lead from the (+)  pole of the battery to the battery lug of the starter solenoid, and a single ground from the (-) lug of the battery to the base of the starter solenoid. So far, the headlights work, the cab dome light works, the gauge cluster is live (though the fuel gage is pinned to the right) the radio powers on and the speakers crackle, the AC Blower fan works. The windshield wipers and wiper fluid pump do not work, the horn is not yet hooked up, the pigtails for the turn signals are different so not hooked up, and Im not positive that the starter solenoid pulls in when you roll the key to the “start” position. The starter solenoid does work with a satisfying clunk when 12v is applied to the s terminal with a jumper wire. The wires running to the rear lights and trailer hookup have been butchered, so none of that is hooked up. Its amazing how the truck feels so much less like a carcass and so much more like a vehicle.



Im hoping you all may be able to help me identify some of the remaining pigtails. I know that the harness came from an 87-91 460 manual transmission truck but I don’t know the year or EFI vs. Carb. I assume this may be the EFI harness since it doesn’t have the two wire pigtail for the DS2 box. From what I can tell, the 4 wire DS2 pigtail comes off of an extension harness that I don’t have but the 2 wire DS2 pigtail comes off the main harness. If anyone could confirm or deny that, it would be helpful.

This two wire pigtail comes off the main harness right next to the battery. Perhaps they are grounds?



Connector mounted on the waterbox – I have 3 wires going in on one side (2 black and one green) but only two black wires coming out on the other side. The blower works. Any ideas?



These three pigtails on the driver side fender



This 10 pin connector on the driver side fender



Finally, I have an 8 pin round connector on the driver side wheel well, it only has 6 wires going into it. I believe this may be connector C344 in the 1987 EVTM ignition diagram for the 7.5L carb engine. Im confident that this connector carries the oil pressure and water temperature senders, somewhat confident that it may carry the tachometer signal and ground, and I suspect it carries the coil power if not the coil ground. I haven’t been able to find a pinout for this connector. Wire colors at the pigtail are black with green stripe, another black with green stripe, orange (or faded red), yellow, black with yellow stripe, and green with yellow stripe. I have a new male pigtail that will plug into this connector. If I can determine which wires are which Ill have everything I need to make a new engine harness and get all of the gauges and the ignition running.




Of course, the tach wires and oil/water senders will be hooked up directly. If I can identify any hot in run/start signal (like coil power), it will be used as the signal to trip a relay that will power a fuse block, that will in turn power things like the ignition and a fuel pump.

Jim,

Thank you again for your consistent support and advice.

Is that fuel flow rate for the fuel pump, or for the return line? Im still leaning towards an electric fuel pump, having a GPH number to shoot for would be really helpful! I think Ill plumb it in with a return regulator, it will be easier than figuring out how to demo out a fuel tank return line and it seems that it cant be a bad thing to have a return in terms of pump life and fuel temp at the carb. I recently installed on of the “cheap click clack pumps” on the bronco, and while you can hear it Im reasonably pleased with it. There is a spare in the back already made up with the fittings and harness pieces. If the one in service fails I should be back on the road in less than 20 minutes.

Thanks for the input on exhaust. Im glad to hear that Im not nuts about sizing or arrangement. Simple is good for me. Ill focus in on picking a good muffler for the job. For some reason, I don’t get the idea “race truck” when I look at one piece at a time sitting in my drive way.

Doing good electrical work really is a gratifying experience. Ive found that laying out a good infrastructure so that doing good work is easier than doing shoddy work helps keep me straight. I don’t think you and I are using the same hardware, but I recently rewired the bronco to run much of the aftermarket equipment off of a new relay and fuse brick, and I added a ground buss so that everything has a good clean non frame ground path back to the battery. Ill just start out there with this truck and skip the years of goofy wire splices. Jim! Why did you give away your harness building stash? I hope the recipient appreciates it! The parts are cheap on a per piece basis but building up a good harness building tools and materials inventory is not.

[StraightSix]

Hi Guys! project "One Piece at a Time" came to a hard left turn today with the addition of a second truck. the new vehicle is a 1988 F250 EFI 460 4X4 With a ZF5 and (oddly enough) another BW1345 transfer case. The gears are 4.10s.






The Good -
This truck actually runs!! I drove it almost 400 miles home from North Carolina. The interior is is pretty good shape, and generally it hasnt been ragged too hard or picked over. Of course, being EFI is a big bonus. It made about 11.5 MPG on the trip home too.

The Bad -
The truck has a lot of small issues. Ive already fixed some of them just by poking around in the fuse panel. The AC doesnt work. The speedo doesnt work (cable is dog chewed at the transfer case end). The oil pressure, volt meter, and water temp gauges dont work. The brakes are pretty weak. The engine has a lot of small issues like broken vacuum lines and something funky going on with the IAC valve. The exhaust pipe sheared off at the muffler inlet about 150 miles away from home last night, so apparently I need a new muffler. the truck has been through one of those $500 paint job places, it looks good from a distance but the gleam passes as you get closer. The rear tank has bad gas in it, and the condition of the tank beyond that was unknown to the previous owner.

The Ugly -
There is a pretty serious driveline vibration between 55-70. I found one loose crossmember bolt and the double Cardan is really loose. The transfer case is stuck in 2HI. finally, the PO told me that he had a local shop rebuild the ZF5. The evidence of those folks is all over the bottom of the truck - missing bell housing bolts, missing starter bolt, crossmember bolts lost and replaced with hardware store stuff. They clearly had the rear housing off of the ZF5 based on the RTV. The transmission has a wine in the input above 2000 crank RPM and now I can hear noise in the input when you let the clutch out with the trans in neutral and the engine idling.

The plan -
Nothing is set in stone, but I know I dont want to tear up that ZF5. They are hard to find. I dont plan to sell the red truck, Ill keep it for the driveline and as a donor vehicle for the bronco and the white truck. Currently, Im considering the merits of pulling the T19 and BW1345 out of the Red truck and putting them in the White truck so I can rebuild the ZF5 at my leisure. Between that and fixing smaller issues with the white truck I can make a lot of progress without spending too much money which is good since I just bought two trucks. Im hoping I can get to a good reliable running driveline and a cab with most of the amenities working this year. I wanted a fall project, it looks like I found it!

[Gary Lewis]

Wow!  That's a lot to take in!

But you have a lot of options, so I'll bet you can find a combination that results in several good trucks.

On the ZF5, they are known to rattle in neutral with the clutch out.  That might not be a problem.

[viven44]

Man that truck is my dream config!!! It was worth the 400 mile drive!!

BTW, if I am understanding correctly, did you drive the whole way in 2HI ???

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'll add to what Gary said,
I'm used to it rattling in neutral and if I lug my truck below 1,800

Rollover noise is common, but the Zf-5 has a whole spectrum of recommended lubricants.
The Ford fill tag says "Use Type H" but according to Zf you can use gear oil up to 90W.
You can also intentionally over-fill it from the shifter tower. (diesel guys seem to do this without ill effect)

Remember that the top starter bolt comes from the rear, and the lower from the front.
If you're going to take it off, replace it with a PMGR.
There's no comparison.

I wish I still had all the clusters I've messed with trying to get my fuel gauges to work.
Unfortunately I binned 3 when I last went to the barn to get Vivek his 650 AVS.  

Replace those U-joints before the vibration tears up the output bushing of your transfer case.
Slather the linkage of the gear selector stick and push it side to side until it frees up and I bet there is no problem getting the truck into 4hi, neutral or 4lo.
Generally it is just the gate on the side of the transmission, but I'm not there looking at it so my wife is not gospel.

[StraightSix]

Gary and Jim,
Its good to know that the rattle I heard in neutral is not unusual, what a relief. Im still skeptical of the rebuild that the transmission has had, but maybe I can put that off until the truck has had some drive time. Is a whine in the input above 2000 crank rpm also common? the whine is not an alarming sound but I don't know if its typical.

Fluid choice for the ZF5 seems to be much discussed with little or no resolution. I've read about folks using Mercon spec fluids, Redline MTL, and the Redline site recommends a product called D4 ATF for the ZF5. Coming from working on the top loaders my knee jerk reaction is to pour it full of MT90 but discussion of true gear oils seems less common for the ZF5. I'd gladly take recommendations and listen to the voice of personal experience. I plan to replace all of the fluids bumper to bumper in the next 100 miles. I know what I plan to use everywhere but the ZF5.

The rear driveshaft is coming down for rebuild before the truck goes out on the road again. The driveshaft has a double Cardan which I'm not sure is factory. The 87 doesn't have one, and the length between the axle yoke and the transfer case output are the same. I'm not sure if its aftermarket or if Ford put it there but I plan to retain it. The U joints in the DC are both 1330s while the U joint at the rear axle input is a 1350. The bolts for the saddles retaining the driveshaft to the rear axle are STUCK. I even tried the hammer blow impact on them without getting them free. Im a little afraid to put the air impact on them because of how bad the problem gets if I break them. I guess Ill try heating the yoke with a propane torch at the bolt holes and then the hammer impact again. After that the air impact is the next option. Oh - one of the saddles on the rear axle yoke is loose, it flops around! and I found one crossmember bolt loose too. I hope that between those issues and the Double Cardan rebuild the driveline shake will be gone when it all goes back together.  

The 1345 is shifting smooth now! I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I didn't actually look at the shifter cane and notice that it requires you to pull the cane to the driver side to get out of high range. the 87s 1345 shifts with a straight pull to the rear, it didn't occur to me that the 88s 1345 would require the leftwards pull. doh. But it works! As a bonus the 4x4 and low range lights are working.

Ive experienced the magic of the PMGR starter in the bronco, as soon as this one gives me trouble itll be replaced with a PMGR!

Since my odometer is wrong, my gauges don't work other than fuel, and the cluster has to come out to install a new speedo cable anyhow, I have a few options. the 87 Cluster seems to feature a full suite of working gauges, and its just sitting there in the yard. Otherwise, Id love to have a factory tachometer. Ive seen 87-91 clusters with tachs but I don't know which vehicles they came in. I assume a diesel cluster/tach is not a good donor for a cluster swap.

Vivek44,
I did make the entire drive home in 2 Hi. Thanks man! By the way, all of your 460 related threads have been very helpful to me as I learn about this engine platform. Thanks for doing such great work and documenting it all here for everyone's benefit!

[Gary Lewis]

I'm running Royal Purple Synchro Max in my ZF5, but I can't say it is "the best thing since a pocket on a shirt".  That's because my 3rd gear syncro doesn't work very well and it never has since the rebuild.  All the other gears are great, but 3rd takes a bit of finesse.  Don't know if another lube would make that better or worse.

As for the whine, I don't have one so can't say.  Or, if I have one I can't hear it over the other noises like the tires and the headers.

Sounds like your driveline is going to get sorted out pretty well.  Good start on the t-case and the u-joints should make a big difference.  But I'm not sure how much heat I'd use to get the bolts loose on the saddles.  Have you used penetrating oil?  I might try penetrating oil and if that doesn't work in a couple of days try some heat and then quench them with penetrating oil a time or two.

I'm not au fait with the gauges for 1987 and later, so will leave that for Jim to address.  

[viven44]

Wow driving back in 2HI says volumes about how good ZF5 is versus the C6 I’m used to… And thanks for your kind feedback. 460 is what I’m trying to specialize/learn more on and one day when I’m old maybe I’ll have warmed up to owning a Godzilla, the 460’s spiritual successor !

[ArdWrknTrk]

I had the Zf -5 factory manual bookmarked, and then they changed their site and I can't even find the document anymore.

Yes, there is a wide range of fluids that can be used, up to and including MT90.
I would consider your climate.
I certainly wouldn't want 90 in my gearbox if I lived in the upper Midwest, Alaska, Canada etc...
I used Royal Purple Synchromax in my gearbox after 3 flushes of strawberry milkshake (bought it for $100 from a rusted in half plow truck)
It sat 9-10 months a year and obviously had condensation problems.

Funny, my '87 has gate to the side.
Maybe that was just a running change?

On your yoke.....  I happen to have a 10.25 short pinion strap yoke "free to a good home" in the marketplace.
It has 3 miles on it, because I was sold a long pinion R&P as fitting '85-92.... 😡
I have no idea, but the long pinion yoke was only $130 and the R&P was already set up, sooooo.

If you want it for the cost of USPS Priority flat rate let me know and I will take the ad down.

Edit:  



WRT the '87-91 clusters, I wish I had known before I trashed the two spare tach clusters I had at the barn.
I asked anyone I knew, but if it's gotta go, it's gotta go.

[Gary Lewis]

The ZF troubleshooting guide and service manual for the ZF5 are on our page at Documentation/Driveline/Transmissions/Manual Transmissions/ZF5.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Good to know!

Thanks for saving that.  

[viven44]

Apologize for my foolish comment here. No surprises on driving 2HI the entire way.

For some crazy reason I applied the mental logic for a 4LO and made those statements and when I looked at my transfer case today before going long distance to make sure I was on the correct setting to freewheel is when I realized my blunder

I get all these mixed up. Tall gears short gears, low gear, high gear, but not sure how I got 2 and 4 mixed up

[StraightSix]

Vivek, no worries! I figure that was what you meant!

Jim, thanks for the incredibly generous offer on the yoke, I was able to get mine apart without any trouble. Kroil and the air impact did the trick. Plus, I scored a nice cluster for $25 at the local pick and pull. I appreciate the offer though!

I had a productive day yesterday on the truck. I finished rebuilding the rear driveshaft and got it hung back up. I installed a pick and pull gauge cluster from an 87-91 302 manual truck along with a new speedo cable. I now have a working trip odo, speedo (reads about 10% low), working factory tach, and the fuel and volt meters work. The oil and water gauges are MIA, but they didn't work on the old cluster. Perhaps the issue is elsewhere?  



Next I shifted focus to the drivers door. The mirror was missing it's glass, the door could only be opened from the outside, the wing window was frozen closed, and someone had installed a big aluminum lock plunger that was too large to go far enough into the door to allow it to lock. I replaced the wing window and mirror with pick and pull parts, then took the latch mechanism out and got it loosened up. The mechanism was frozen with rust, that is what prevented to inside handle from working. Ofcourse, it all went back together with a correct lock button.

Finally, it got an oil change. For now I'm going to try out Joe Gibbs HR30. It's the oild I use for flat tappet protection in the Bronco. I picked up a gallon of redline MTL for the transmission but I haven't put it in yet. It seems that reviews are mixed, but the temptation of a gear oil pulled me in.

Hopefully I'll finish out fluid changes in the next few days, then it'll be time to diagnose the terrible brakes. At that point it might be "road worthy"!

Oh - it will no longer start from the key. If you put the key in run and jump the starter solenoid with a wire (battery pole to start pole), it fires right off. I assume my start wire is not supplying enough voltage to engage the solenoid. I need to find a friend to roll the key so I can measure with a volt meter. More to come on that.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm all about paying it forward!
With the long spline pinion I've got now, that new yoke is surplus.

This is a great forum and I'd like to be helpful if I can.  
Hopefully someone else with an '85-'92 2wd truck can make use of it!

I think your gauge issue has to be the firewall connector or where the engine harness splits out near the ignition module.

On the starter, be sure to check the transmission mode plug and the clutch interlock above your left foot.
If either of these has come unplugged or the clutch safety is out of adjustment, the truck won't crank.

[StraightSix]

EDIT - I cant seem to get the photo editor to work this morning. Ill try to add photos again later in the day.

Hi Guys! Ive made a bit more modest progress on the truck. Jim was right about the clutch safety switch, an easy fix! Thanks Jim!

I dropped a vacuum gauge on the engine and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was making 19 inhg at hot idle around 600 rpm.

Moving on to brakes – the brakes on this truck are outright scary. The stopping distance from 30 mph is probably 3 full lengths of the truck.  This will need to be remedied before the truck goes out on the road. I had been assuming that the idle vacuum was weak and that was the cause of the poor brake performance but with 19inhg at idle, I know that’s probably not the cause. I lifted all four tires one by one yesterday and tested to see in the brakes would lug the engine down in 1st gear. I tested the rear axle in 2 hi, then dropped the rear driveshaft and tested the front axle in 4 hi. It turns out that all 4 corners are doing something – they will all four lug the engine down in 1st or stop the wheels from 20 mph speeds on a dime with the clutch depressed (driver rear wheel makes about half a revolution, all of the others stopped dead). Atleast I know that all four corners are doing something. I don’t have a lot of break diagnostic experience. The pedal is soft, but it doesn’t drop to the floor on its own or anything like that. Part of this repair will certainly be bleeding new brake fluid into the system, but I want to diagnose the failure mode before doing that if I can. Is there a way to isolate parts of the system to narrow it down?

Additionally, the Ebrake cables are loose and hanging so I need to address that.

When I bought the truck the IAC feed was broken off from the main snorkel with a bolt plugging it up. After unplugging it, the engine seems to idle normally. It starts and runs at 900 rpm or so, then steps down to 750ish, then finally to 600 rpm. That whole process takes a few minutes. Just based on that, I assume the IAC is working somewhat normally. Im not sure why the PO elected to plug it off. Perhaps they didn’t understand what it was? The long term solution is to find a replacement for the plastic body that joins the main snorkel lines and this little feed line. Until I stumble across one of those I plan to make an epoxy repair so the engine isn’t getting unfiltered air.

Hopefully today Ill be able to flush the coolant – of course Ill capture all of the original coolant for recycling. What is in the radiator has the consistency of antifreeze, but the color of river water. Before adding the new coolant to the system Ill replace all of the hoses other than the jumper from the pump to the block.