Off-topic: 1986 Jeep CJ7 steering gearbox

[ReneH]

Hi, I've a question regarding a new Cardone steering gearbox for my CJ7:

I've installed a new gearbox from cardone.
The first test-drive, after setting the track shows much play.

Is it possible,  that I have to set the preload after installing the new box?

The preload screw isn't marked like at my gearbox from blue top in my bronco.

Thanks for your help!

[Gary Lewis]

Yes it is very possible to get a bad rebuilt box.  And if they are like Ford boxes you'll kill the "feel" of the steering if you adjust it.

Buy one from Blue Top: https://bluetopsteeringgears-com.3dcartstores.com/Jeep_c_16.html

[ReneH]

Hmm...I don't know...there is a procedure in the manual:

Manual

The thing is, when the steering wheel is centered, there isn't any play. Turning the wheel moves the pitman shaft simultaneously.

Maybe that's the thing to do like in the manual...

I also have to check what the workshop has done as they have performed the wheel alignment...there is only one position where the steering damper mounting doesn't hits the differential cover or stucks with the other tie rod...

[Gary Lewis]

That procedure is pretty much the same as Ford's procedure.  And it should have been performed by Cardone before sending the unit out, at which point it shouldn't be adjusted again w/o going through the procedure.  But you can do that to ensure it is adjusted properly.

I'd bet that your box is just like the Ford boxes and uses the cast iron of the box as the bearing surface for the front bearing.  And what Cardone, and most others, do is to measure that and discard boxes that aren't within their tolerance.  But their tolerance is greater than what the original tolerance was, so the box comes out "loose".

As far as I know only BlueTop and Redhead bore the box out and put a real bearing in there.  That puts the tolerance back to where it should be.

I replaced a recently rebuilt box, that cost the previous owner more than a Redhead or BlueTop, with a BlueTop and it made a huge difference in the steering.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

Buy one from Blue Top: https://bluetopsteeringgears-com.3dcartstores.com/Jeep_c_16.html

Gary, this is the right move… for US guys.
We, poor foreign Bullnose owners, don’t have access to Bluetop.
They are only shipping within the United States.

[Gary Lewis]

Bummer!  I didn't think about that.  Thanks, Jeff.  

What about Redhead?  Do they ship internationally?

[ReneH]

I've checked the steering box and there is no play at all. The problem seems to be the big tires and the workshop that has mounted my steering damper wrong, so that it's stucking with one of the tie rods and at the differential cover.

I've moved the damper and checked the play. If I turn the steering wheel slightly, starting from the zero position, the wheel move simultaneously. So the gearbox isn't the problem.

I drive 32x11.5 R15 tires with the factory suspension and steering parts.

I'm thinking for some time about building a switch to bypass the powersteering pump and get a more stabilized drive at higher speeds. Or maybe something like a adjustable "brake" at the steering shaft...

For blue-top and red-hat, it's the best way, if you have someone in the states, that also could send them a defective gearbox in exchange...otherwise it will get really expensive. Shipping via a relay Adresse isn't the problem.

[Gary Lewis]

If there's no play in the steering box then I wouldn't change to Redhead or BlueTop.  I'd concentrate on getting the rest of the system in good shape and then, if everything else is top notch, do the steering box.

So how does it drive now that you've gotten the steering damper attached correctly?  The larger tires do cause issues with the steering but some of that can be helped with castor, camber, and tire pressure.

[ReneH]

As my Jeep was parked in the garage for some month and I have driven only my Bronco with the Blue-Top Box and the much wider wheelbase, I'm not sure if the steering on my Jeep was as it is or more worse or better before...so, it's a good question...

The only thing that I know is, that it is not good/safe for my wife. She should drive the CJ7, when I work on our LeBaron...so I want to fix this problem before I do the needed things on the LeBaron.

Moving the damper on a better position is feelable. Also the cracking sounds, when the damper connection-elements hits the differential cover are gone.

But I still need something to regulate the power-steering pressure or completly bypassing it.

I also thought about a dual-damper setup. But there is no space for it in my factory suspension setup.

[Gary Lewis]

Depending on how wide your wheels are you may have a mismatch between the tires you have and the wheel width.  I use Tire Rack and find my tire and then see what wheel widths they recommend for those tires.

And also check the tire pressures.  You might be surprised how much difference a few pounds of pressure makes.  Too little pressure causes the edges of the tires to catch on grooves or ruts in the pavement and the steering tries to follow the ruts.  So play with the pressures to see if it changes the handling.

[ReneH]

I drive the 32x11.5x15 wheels, which are very common for the CJ7. I think the problem is more the personal feeling about that, if comparing to my bronco or the LeBaron...

As the CJ7 is more an off-road than a street vehicle, a strong and very easy steering maybe is wanted...so I'm currently looking for a electronic hydraulic valve to bypass the powersteering pump. Maybe combined with a pressure regulator to not completely deactivate the powersteering on the gearbox.

I don't know if a complete bypass will damage the steering gearbox...

The basic idea is to reduce the pressure of the steering pump by pressing a button when driving to get the steering more stiff.
If standing still or parking, you can re-activate it. So it's the manual version of a speed ​​dependent powersteering in modern cars.

[Gary Lewis]

If I understand right, you have 32 x 11.5 tires.  Have you checked to see what width of wheel those tires should be on?  I usually go to Tire Rack and find my tire and look at the specs for wheel width.  I just looked  and two tires of that size that I picked should be on 8 - 10" wide wheels.  What wheel width do you have?

Tires on too wide or narrow of a wheel do not handle correctly.  And if the wheel doesn't have the proper offset and backspacing it messes up the handling as well.

My SiL, TJ, bought a truck with way too wide of wheels and tires that don't fit them correctly - the sidewalls are rounded instead of being straight to the tread.  And the handling is very poor.  We attributed some of the problem to the steering box, but when we replaced it with a BlueTop we realized that a big part of it is the tires and wheels.  They are getting replaced.

[ReneH]

Hi Gary, I have checked what's mounted:
Mangels 10JJ X15 CH ET34 with tires
Yokohama Geolandar A/T 32x11.5 R15 LT.

[Gary Lewis]

Here's the page at TireRack on your tires.  And it says the right rim width is 8 - 10".  So your wheels should be right for them, albeit at the upper end of the width range.  But they should work.

Have you tried different pressures?  That can dramatically effect the "feel" of a tire and wheel combo.  So I'd raise the pressure 2 - 3 psi and try that.  Lower it 2 - 3 psi below where you have them now.  Play around to see what changes in "feel" that might make.

[ReneH]

Ok. Thanks for this.
I have searched via Google what tires the people drive with my wheels on the 1986 CJ7...the most I've found have the 32x12.5 on the 10" wheels...

But ok, as you've found out, my setup should fit. I've raised the pressure a bit, but as I've removed my hardtop and the weather gets unsteady, I haven't had time to drive and check.

But my opinion is still that I should be able to regulate the pressure of the steering pump, when my wife would drive the CJ7.

[Gary Lewis]

I wonder if there is a pressure regulator that you could use?  It would let you reduce the max pressure, and therefore the assist, that the system gives.

[ReneH]

Hmm...that's still the question for me. I want to get less assistance from the steering pump...or better an adjustable assistance...

I think an electric three way valve should work fine to bypass the fluid back into the reservoir. If I can combine thus with a regulator, I can setup one line with full assist and another with reduced assist, controllable by a switch from the dashboard.

So, when driving on a highway or a  country road, you can switch off the assist, or even better switch to a reduced assist.

So, that's the plan so far...

[85lebaront2]

Gary, on a Saginaw pump the pressure regulator varies with the application.

[Gary Lewis]

So his Jeep has a Saginaw?

[Nothing Special]

I don't know about '86, but my '75 CJ-5 had a Saginaw