New user here

[Chris85250’s]

Sorry for the confusion, I wish I had a set of cj/Sc heads. I do not! They are DOVE-C heads.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:20 PM ArdWrknTrk [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

First off, above you say you have doors, now you say you have doves....

There's a BIG difference between Cobra Jet/Super Cobra Jet heads and 1970 Lincoln heads, like valve sizes, location and the intake runner volume.
If you want a race car the doors stand above the doves, but unless you're building a race engine I think either of those would be bettered by a pair of well ported D3's if you're looking for the torque to tow something.

Add the fact that the Edelbrock Performer series won't even meet the ports in a CJ head and you have a recipient for disappoint.
Especially with a small displacement build where you're going to have to rev it to the moon to get those ports to have any filling inertia.

"There is no replacement for displacement" is an absolute fact.
If you want to move big heavy things you need grunt like a lineman, not a sprinting running back.

If you have the Performer and only a 750 carb, trade those heads for something better suited to you needs (like a stroker crank that will give you more displacement and compression in one swoop.

Have someone work the bowls and exhaust ports of some smaller runner heads and choose a cam that tops out at ~5,500.

Talk to Scott. His email is on his website.
He knows more about these things than any 10 of us, and can get you a cam ground specifically for your application.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood.  

No you don't.... because then that 750/Performer wouldn't fit at all.

D0VE's can work, but they don't have unleaded valve seats and the chambers don't work great with the octane available today.
If your block is at the shop consider getting your rotating assembly together and have them zero deck the block (or at least cut the deck to C8 block height)

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm assuming you have a D9TE -external balance- block?
That's actually a good starting point, because the cylinders are deeper and you won't spend a fortune on flywheel balance.

[Chris85250’s]

Yes the block I’m using is a D9TE. 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 4:37 AM ArdWrknTrk [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm assuming you have a D9TE -external balance- block?
That's actually a good starting point, because the cylinders are deeper and you won't spend a fortune on flywheel balance.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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[ArdWrknTrk]

As it should be if it came from a F53 RV chassis.

Consider what I mentioned about decking the block if you have D0VE heads.
It's the only way you're going to get quench and make power on today's unleaded pump gas.***with those heads***

Also think about doing a little porting on the exhaust side.
You can have the freest flowing exhaust in the world, it won't help if the exhaust can't get out of the head.

Edit = ***

[Chris85250’s]

So I know that if I run the dove heads I’ll prob be pushing 10:1 and have to run premium fuel. Or so that’s what I’ve been reading. Like I said I’m kinda new at building an engine. If I deck the block to 0 are you saying I wouldn’t have to run premium fuel? And as far as porting goes are you just talking about opening up the exhaust ports to match the gasket, or actually getting down and dirty and blending the bowls? Thanks for all the info by the way

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 4:50 AM ArdWrknTrk [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

As it should be if it came from a F53 RV chassis.

Consider what I mentioned about decking the block if you have D0VE heads.
It's the only way you're going to get quench and make power on today's unleaded pump gas.

Also think about doing a little porting on the exhaust side.
You can have the freest flowing exhaust in the world, it won't help if the exhaust can't get out of the head.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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[ArdWrknTrk]

You have to remember in 1970 premium fuel was 100 octane leaded for around $0.40 a gallon!  

The work that really needs to be done is on the short side exhaust radius and the hump in the port roof.
That and unshrouding the valves is probably what you want.
The exhaust ports in most Ford engines are their downfall, and that usually means going with an asymmetric grind camshaft too.

If you go to Scott's website and pay some nominal fee like $29 you can get information for porting from street to max effort race applications along with great pictures and sections showing each step and more importantly where NOT to grind.

D0VE's aren't going to get you 10:1 with the later deck height you have, and you couldn't run iron heads at that with the 93 octane gas we have today.
I'd suggest about 9.5:1 and you need the piston within about 0.045" to keep the charge cool around the perimeter.
This is called 'quench' and means the charge has enough contact with metal that it won't explode spontaneously.
Given that most common head gaskets ARE 0.040 compressed that's going to put you at or very close to zero deck.

First you need to CC your heads after you do any chamber and valve work.
Use this number and quench clearance to determine how much piston dish you need to get to the CR you're shooting for.

Then you need to install the rotating assembly (at least the four corners) and see how far in the hole you are.
Square the block and bring the decks down to where you have enough quench to work with whatever fuel you're going to use.

The first part of this process is to determine your realistic needs and use for this engine.
You already have a carb and intake so you have to build around that, and what it can do for you.
Choose a cam that will give you the torque and rpm range you really need for towing given whatever your final drive ratio and tire size you're going to use.

The Edelbrock components are a good start for a tow rig, but these pieces must all work together.
Since you already have some of them, that's going to dictate what else you need, like cam and pistons.

[ArdWrknTrk]

My apologies for jumping off on a tangent here in your introduction thread.  

This is going to happen if you get a geek talking about something they care about.
And I do care that you don't build yourself a temperamental beast that won't pull and guzzles $8 a gallon race fuel like a tailgater sucks Bud Lite in the playoff parking lot.

If you want good advice (and not my advice) I ask you to start a new topic down in the main forum.
I'm not the only one to build a 460. In fact both Gary and Bill have built fuel injected 460's in the past year.
There's a lot of tips and tricks that all come together to making a successful build.
Things like using the straight up double roller timing set found stock in those later EFI engines.
Or correcting pushrod length and rocker geometry after cutting the deck.
How to get the lift and duration you want without going to a roller profile cam.   Etc...

Probably our first discussion should be budget, because that's definitely going to become an issue when it comes to head and block prep.

[Chris85250’s]

Not a problem at all! I like to learn, and the more I do the better I’d be. I still get lost talking about all different aspects of building an engine. I know what I’m looking to do with the truck, eventually hauling a fifth wheel and camping with the family. I’m not looking to spend crazy money, and want more torque than anything. I’m not 100% with all the lingo and specs of things that need to be done. And I appreciate all the advice I can get. I haven’t really had time to explore the site yet, and for some reason it doesn’t really work that well on my phone. So when I’m on the computer next I will be on!

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 2:04 PM ArdWrknTrk [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

My apologies for jumping off on a tangent here in your introduction thread.  

This is going to happen if you get a geek talking about something they care about.
And I do care that you don't build yourself a temperamental beast that won't pull and guzzles $8 a gallon race fuel like a tailgater sucks Bud Lite in the playoff parking lot.

If you want good advice (and not my advice) I ask you to start a new topic down in the main forum.
I'm not the only one to build a 460. In fact both Gary and Bill have built fuel injected 460's in the past year.
There's a lot of tips and tricks that all come together to making a successful build.
Things like using the straight up double roller timing set found stock in those later EFI engines.
Or correcting pushrod length and rocker geometry after cutting the deck.
How to get the lift and duration you want without going to a roller profile cam.   Etc...

Probably our first discussion should be budget, because that's definitely going to become an issue when it comes to head and block prep.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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