NOS Dealer Installed CC FORD F2TZ-9A818-A

[Rembrant]

Gentlemen,

This NOS cruise control kit showed up fairly close to me and I'm wondering if it would be adapted to fit my 1984 Holley carbed 302 without too much trouble? I know the throttle cable would be meant for EFI, but is this a stand alone kit that would work on a carbed truck, or is it meant to somehow interface with the EFI system? I'd like to buy it if it will work for me. I seem to recall Steve83 saying that the later cruise systems will work on the older trucks.

It is listed as Dealer Installed cruise control kit fitting 1992-1996 F150, p/n FORD F2TZ-9A818-A. The guy says he bought it 12 years ago and no longer has the truck it was intended for.






Any comments good or bad?

[Gary Lewis]

I don't think it will work as it doesn't have the speedometer cable input like the ones for our trucks.  I think that one is set up for the electronic speedometer.

However, you can add the electronic module to your truck and wire from it to the cruise control.  I have a one of those modules, and it goes into the transmission/transfer case where the speedo cable goes.  Your speedo cable still connects to it, but you also have the digital output.

With that, it might work.  But let me do some more sleuthing when I get to the shop.  I have the 1996 EVTM and it'll show how that thing is wired and we will know if it needs the EFI.

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

I don't think it will work as it doesn't have the speedometer cable input like the ones for our trucks.  I think that one is set up for the electronic speedometer.

However, you can add the electronic module to your truck and wire from it to the cruise control.  I have a one of those modules, and it goes into the transmission/transfer case where the speedo cable goes.  Your speedo cable still connects to it, but you also have the digital output.

With that, it might work.  But let me do some more sleuthing when I get to the shop.  I have the 1996 EVTM and it'll show how that thing is wired and we will know if it needs the EFI.

Gary,

I already have the electronic output module that goes into the trans as I was going to use it for an aftermarket cruise control anyway. I had already confirmed that it will work perfectly for what I wanted to use it for, but this Ford kit came up and it is pretty cheap, so if it were to work, I'd grab it.

[grumpin]

I thought the speed sensor for 92-96 was on the rear diff., if that matters.

Doesn't look like what I have on my 1986, but perhaps you could make it work.

[Gary Lewis]

There's another of these things on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-1993-1994-1995-1996-FORD-F150-F250-F350-BRONCO-CRUISE-CONTROL-ASSEMBLY-KIT/392070148041?hash=item5b4933afc9:g:cQ0AAOSwv0tVTXXy

And, I added the pages from the 1996 EVTM here: Electrical/Speed Control.  It does look like the speed control module takes its input from the Programmable Speedometer/Odometer Module (PSOM), and that gets its input from the rear axle.  But I don't know if you can substitute the output for the module plugged into the tranny for the rear axle's input and make it work.

But, the steering wheel controls look to be the same as the Bullnose controls.

Perhaps Bill knows as he's been into this?

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

There's another of these things on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-1993-1994-1995-1996-FORD-F150-F250-F350-BRONCO-CRUISE-CONTROL-ASSEMBLY-KIT/392070148041?hash=item5b4933afc9:g:cQ0AAOSwv0tVTXXy

Oh wow...I have no interest in paying that kind of money...the kit for sale locally is like $50 bucks, which is why it caught my eye. If I have to spend real money, I'll just buy a Rostra CC kit that I'm familiar with and know works well.

Maybe Steve83 will comment. I seem to recall him talking about these CC retrofits...could be wrong though.

[Gary Lewis]

I only posted that link to show what they are selling for elsewhere.

As for Steve83, he surely knows more than I do, so hopefully he'll chime in.  Here's what I found he said with regard to "speed control": http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/My-1984-F150-2wd-Flareside-Project-Blue-Mule-tp4515p19974.html

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

As for Steve83, he surely knows more than I do, so hopefully he'll chime in.  Here's what I found he said with regard to "speed control": http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/My-1984-F150-2wd-Flareside-Project-Blue-Mule-tp4515p19974.html

Oh...I think I found his comments that I was thinking of in the parts interchange thread, and he was referring to swapping a cruise (speed control equipped) steering column (pre-92) with any pre-92 truck...

Not the speed control system itself, just the column...

And it was pre-92 anyway, so....

This is probably a wash.

[Steve83]

There's nothing about the cruise system that's dependent on EFI.  No matter where the speed signal comes from (cable, rear diff, transmission, or aftermarket sensor), it has to become electronic before it goes to the cruise module, and most modules will accept most signals.  So that module isn't dependent on any specific sensor.  It doesn't look like it even includes a speed sensor, which further suggests it will accept many signals.  The '87-04 8.8" ABS sensor put out 108 pulses per rev, which is what the '92-97 PSOM used to generate a standard 8,000 pulses-per-mile VSS (Vehicle Speed Signal) for other modules to use (including both the pre-'93 cruise module, & the '93-04 cruise servo).  Older factory vacuum cruise systems used a 6 pulse-per-rev sensor on the speedo cable (except '92), which if you do the math, is very close to 108 pulses on the rear axle.  So the systems will work with each other's sensors.

I can't say for sure about that one since it's not factory & I don't have its technical specs, but I assume that it was built to use the same ABS sensor input, so it should work with either sensor (ABS or speedo cable).  This shows the factory '92 circuits (unique because it's the vacuum system driven by the PSOM input):



There are 2 cable sensors: the inline (pre~'87) which is relatively UNreliable and hard to find in working condition; and the more-common & -reliable '87-91 sensor that goes at the bottom end of the cable.  The sensor was actually used on MANY more vehicles & applications (often with its cable output hole blocked off), so it's fairly easy to find used or new.





In short: I'd take the chance for $50.  If it doesn't work for you, I expect you can get most of your money back when you sell it, if you don't turn a profit (based on the price Gary found).

[Rembrant]

Steve83 wrote

In short: I'd take the chance for $50.  If it doesn't work for you, I expect you can get most of your money back when you sell it, if you don't turn a profit (based on the price Gary found).

Steve,

Thanks for the feedback. I may grab it to see if it can be made to work. I already have the speed sensor that mounts on the trans, so maybe this wouldn't be so difficult to make work.

[Rembrant]

Steve83 wrote

The '87-04 8.8" ABS sensor put out 108 pulses per rev, which is what the '92-97 PSOM used to generate a standard 8,000 pulses-per-mile VSS (Vehicle Speed Signal) for other modules to use (including both the pre-'93 cruise module, & the '93-04 cruise servo).  Older factory vacuum cruise systems used a 6 pulse-per-rev sensor on the speedo cable (except '92), which if you do the math, is very close to 108 pulses on the rear axle.  So the systems will work with each other's sensors.

Steve,

Couple questions:

1. I thought the pulses per rev of the later (transmission mounted) VSS was 8 instead of 6, no? I'm referring to the one used in the 1987-1991 era, that the cable plugged into like pictured above. I thought that speedo cables were meant to be spinning approx 1000 revs per mile, and thus with a sensor output of 8 pulses per rev, you'd get the 8000 pulses per mile required? Or am I remembering this incorrectly?

I spoke to Rostra a while back (months ago) about using their system with the trans mounted VSS I have, and I thought they said it put out 8000 pulses per mile, although I could be remembering that wrong.

2. What calculations did you use to come up with the trans mounted VSS pulses and the diff mounted ABS pulses being very close to the same per mile? I've been trying some math with these numbers and they don't come out anywhere even close to the same, so I'm clearly missing something...

[Rembrant]

By the way, here is a picture from the back of the module (Clipped from the Ebay ad).



So, only a single wire input for speed signal, which is fine. I just need to know if the signal from my VSS (8000 pulses per mile?) would work...

Also...if you look in the pictures of the kits, you'll see what looks like an SAE plug pigtail with two green wires....

Meant to fit one of these sensors? I happened to see this one the other day on a Rockauto closeouts deal email...but I have no idea where it mounts on an F150. I don't recognize this sensor at all. It is listed as a cruise control sensor.

[Steve83]

Rembrant wrote

1. I thought the pulses per rev of the later (transmission mounted) VSS was 8 instead of 6, no?

I specifically remember breaking open a jammed inline sensor & seeing 6 magnets.  I thought I had seen the same in the bottom-end sensor, but now that you bring it up, I don't specifically remember tearing one open.

Rembrant wrote

2. What calculations did you use...?

It's been decades, so I don't remember that, either.  But you have to find the ratio of the worm-drive for the bottom end of the speedo cable, which is NOT simply the tooth-count ratio, like it is for other gear drives.  And it's not the same, but it's close enough to work.  Another reason I think it will work is that I think the cruise module is the same for '91 trucks (worm drive) and '92 trucks (ABS).

Rembrant wrote

I don't recognize this sensor at all.

It just looks like another version of the sensor in my pic.  Different connections, but the same guts.

BTW
I still think the '92-04 servo is a better system.  And it uses the same control buttons as any other Ford cruise.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm not all that knowledgeable on the speed controls, but I'm not sure the pulse/mile count is a big issue.  Don't the controls just keep the pulses at whatever the rate was when you hit the button?  It might change the low speed where it will start working, but ....

[Rembrant]

Steve83 wrote

I thought I had seen the same in the bottom-end sensor, but now that you bring it up, I don't specifically remember tearing one open.

I hadn't thought of breaking one open. I do have a brand new one, but the spare M5OD trans I have actually has a damaged VSS in it, so maybe I'll check it. I forgot I even had it until you mentioned that.

I didn't realize that the speedo drive was not a normal ratio, but using the 8/18 teeth (2.25:1 ratio), the math works out that my speedo cable is spinning 953 revolutions per mile, which is pretty close to 1000/mile, which I thought was what cable driven speedos were set-up for (not just Ford, all of them).

I too prefer a servo operated cruise. I've used the Rostra car kits on motorcycles for years, and they work very well. However, for the cheap price of this kit, I might give it a whirl.

Thanks for the replies gentlemen! Much appreciated.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I once found that the target speed for the speedo cable is 1000 revs/mile, which at 60 MPH is 1000 RPM.  Don't remember exactly where I found it, but it was pretty authoritative.  And, I've documented it on the Calculator tab here: Driveline/Speedometer Gears.

[Steve83]

Gary Lewis wrote

It might change the low speed where it will start working, but ...

Yes, that can be a problem if the pulses are way off; the cruise may not engage at normal driving speeds, or it may keep working at low speeds when it should cut off.  It's a bigger problem with the '93-04 system, which actually responds in MPH (which is why I like it so much more).

Rembrant wrote

...I thought was what cable driven speedos were set-up for (not just Ford, all of them).

Did you read the TSB in this caption?



This one is also worth reading before you commit to that system:

Rembrant wrote

I too prefer a servo operated cruise. I've used the Rostra car kits on motorcycles for years, and they work very well.

The pre-'93 servo is vacuum-operated.  The '92-04 servo is electronic, which is a vast improvement.  I've repaired a Rostra, and I'm not a fan.

[Gary Lewis]

Why is the electronic servo "a vast improvement"?  I've gotten along well with the vacuum-powered ones, but what am I missing?

[Steve83]

Gary Lewis wrote

Why is the electronic servo "a vast improvement"?

My I6 spends most of its life at WOT, which means no vacuum to operate the servo.  I've had it drop out on hills & when towing, back when I used the vacuum system.  V8s don't struggle as badly, but I still consider it a big weakness.  But the thing I like most about the '93-04 servo (and '04-up software) is that each press of the buttons is exactly 1 MPH.  So if you're in a 55 zone holding that speed, and it changes to 65, you can rattle off 10 presses of the ACCEL button, and it'll ease up to exactly 65 (it doesn't go to WOT like most other systems).  Same for the COAST(decel) button.  I haven't found any other cruise with that functionality except the very newest high-trim Maxima.  My father thought his '10 Dodge dually had it, but it doesn't.  Ford had it in the early 90s, and that system can be added to almost anything - including bullnoses (though it's much easier with an '87-up rear axle with the ABS sensor).  I actually drive on cruise whenever I can - even in traffic.

[Gary Lewis]

Interesting.  I've not had the lack-of-vacuum problem.  Dad's truck, when it had Rusty's warmed-up 351M and the ZF5, pulled the steep hill in eastern TN on I40 on cruise at 65 MPH.  And the bed was loaded to the top of the cab's roof with furniture we took from OK to DE.  R's were probably 1800, and it just motored right on up.  But, I didn't tow with it so maybe the vacuum would have been low enough then not to handle the cruise.

As for getting 1 MPH per button push, my 2015 F150 does that.  And, it really is nice.  However, the cruise on that thing is so aggressive that it really kills the MPG by constantly bringing in the turbos.

Anyway, I was just curious why, and you've answered the question.  Thanks.