Lila- 81 F100. Built for her, by her!

[Gary Lewis]

Sorry, Jim.  I've not had many timeouts that take the post away, but I have had blank screens come up that make my heart jump into my throat.  Perhaps you could copy the text before hitting Post?

[Lila_the81Custom]

So the water pump I put on first was clockwise rotation, the water pump that I pulled from the 94' looked identical to mine (outlets were exactly the same) except it was a counter clockwise rotation. I have no idea what the engine came off of. I know that when I took it apart it was running a v-belt set up. Does that mean that it isn't compatible for serpentine or just that someone chose to go v-belt?

As for over heating, I know that at one point it did over heat. Unfortunately I do not know the reasons as I drove it home about 10 miles and that is all the experience that I have with that trucks driving abilities. I do know that she had a MAJOR transmission leak and was burning some serious oil. I say that it over heated at some point due to the bluing in side the cylinders and the immense pitting on the intake manifold.
The engine has been completely overhauled by a machinist and almost all of the parts (like intake) are brand new. So there should be no issues there.

I will have to look at both pedal boxes again and pull numbers off of them. Good news is I have both! The original (I believe) was for the 300 I6 3 speed manual as the clutch was still on it, only it was disengaged.

Is it against the forum rules to offer my phone number so that people may reach out via phone, as in some circumstances it is easier to discuss certain topics vocally vs. typing?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I would NEVER post my phone number on the internet (anywhere)

By clicking anybody's username you will see an option to 'send an email to XYZ'
Many of us talk and text behind the scenes.
There's nothing wrong with that!
But for any of us to maintain a semblance of privacy we don't put home addresses on the map either.
Of course with us sending parts back and forth we DO know each other's addresses.

[Gary Lewis]

I can't tell you what will work and won't work on the water pump/timing case issue.  You need help from some of the others, like maybe Cory or Shaun.  Let's see if they chime in.

As for the telephone #, we have no rules regarding that.  So if you want to post your telephone number go ahead.  But you may get a lot of crank calls as this forum is, like most forums, visible to anyone in the world.  At the very least I'd make the numbers into words for part of it, like my area code is nine one eight.

[Lila_the81Custom]

Fair enough, I guess I meant behind the scenes not necessarily sharing with the world. LOL (see translation is everything!) So I am putting it out there that I am willing to discuss over the phone topics. Unfortunately in my area everyone seems to only specialize in Chevy, and ford experts are few and far between locally.

[Rembrant]

Jaci,

Unfortunately for us, the 302 is a bit of a rat's nest nest when it comes to part interchangeability. There are all kinds of parts that can be swapped between generations, but shouldn't be swapped. Water pumps are an issues, as are harmonic balancers and flywheels, etc.

Just out of curiosity, how are you identifying your 302 as a 1991? The reason I ask is, if it is carbed, has V-belts and a mechanical fuel pump, then it doesn't sound like it was pulled from a 1991...not complete at least. The double sump oil pan sounds like it came from a car though. Anyway...just curious.

If you have one of the old style timing covers with a mechanical fuel pump, then it is likely that you require a water pump with the old style rotation (V-belt).

When you were installing the transmission, did you happen to notice if the 302 had a 1pc rear main seal on the crank?

Did you also take the starter from the same truck that you got the 5spd from? The reason I ask is that starters are specific to manual or auto transmissions, so you can't use the starter from the AOD on the 5spd. Just an FYI.

As far as the manual hydraulic pedal boxes go, I'm probably not much help. I know that all of the generation pedal boxes are not interchangeable as complete units. 1983-1986 is one, 1987-1991, and 1992-1996. Whether you can swap individual parts in between them I don't know.

There were some changes in the clutch slave cylinders as well. Did you re-use the slave that was in the 1994 transmission?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm thinking back to my '85 GT  And even though it had a carb, it had a polygroove belt w/ tensioner.

It's a real challenge to figure out what all is in a stray mutt you've adopted!

One thing that can tell us something, is the crank balance.
And like Cory said, the type of rear main seal.

Would you consider using an electric fuel pump to adapt the timing case to RRWP, and then you can use the serpentine setup you want?
(Same for changing the pan and pickup to drop it into those mounts)
None of the '80s trucks had front or split sump pans. Though I do believe some Econoline vans did.

[Lila_the81Custom]

Rembrant & Jim
The casting number on the block is F1SE-BB. As stated before I know it is not the original engine and if I had to guess what it was pulled from I would think a mustang (even though the S is for thunderbird). I know the engine came to me complete with carb, v-belts, and mechanical fuel pump. What it was originally, I have zero idea.

We stripped the engine to the block and had it and both heads completely overhauled by the machinist and rebuilt it from the block up. EVERYTHING on and in that block is brand new. The rear main seal I believe is a 2 piece (don't quote me though).

We have already swapped the oil pan to a rear sump, mechanical fuel pump an inline fuel pump, and put a RRWP on! YAY ME!!


We purchased a new starter that is for the hydraulic transmission.
I am still researching the pedal box, was told that because we are frame up resto and there is nothing inside the cab at the moment, that we may be able to install the pedal box from the 94' with minimal fabrication. I am not convinced quite yet. I pulled everything from the 94' that involved the manual transmission, including the slave and master clutch cylinder.

[ArdWrknTrk]

You two are moving fast Jaci!

A '90's block and crank would use a one-piece drive in rear main seal and 50oz. balance.
(The balance changed in '82)
Do you recall what cam you've used and if there are solid or roller lifters?

Yes, I've said you can fabricate new pedal support mounts.
I suggested Shaun has pictures and dimensions from his last epic retro/resto of an 80/81 truck.
Just be aware that the way the steering column bolts up is different in the details.
And by '94 all the dash structure had changed quite a bit.

Cory makes a good point about where to drive the speedometer from.
Again, in '94 there were no cables, just an electronic module (PSOM)
There's some discussion about these in Big Blues thread right now.

Those concentric slave cylinders in the Mazda gearboxes can be a pain to bleed.
Sometimes easier to push fluid from the bleeder up, to fill the master cylinder.

I always liked the look of these early trucks.
The subtle differences and many options are one of Shaun's obsessions, so hopefully he will weigh in or I can ask he to post pedal support pics in this thread.

[Rembrant]

Lila_the81Custom wrote

Rembrant,
The casting number on the block is F1SE-BB. As stated before I know it is not the original engine and if I had to guess what it was pulled from I would think a mustang (even though the S is for thunderbird). I know the engine came to me complete with carb, v-belts, and mechanical fuel pump. What it was originally, I have zero idea.

Right, yes. I forgot about the block casting number. God knows what it came out of then. Clearly some parts were swapped around in the past. This makes the 302 a little frustrating as there were lots of changes over the years.

[salans7]

I will weigh in on the pedal support, as I have some experience down that road.

As Cory said, the hydraulic pedal assembles are different between the generations, 83-86, 87-91, and 92-96. Each generation the support bracket that is riveted to the cab near the windshield changes as well, and that bracket is what the pedal assemblies bolt to at the top. The pedal assemblies also utilize the same bolts that hold the brake booster to the firewall.

In order to put a bullnose 83-86 pedal assembly into my 1990 cab, I had to cut the spot welds holding the support brackets to each cab and then swap the bullnose bracket to the 1990 cab. Then I had to weld the bracket to the cab.

Here is the bracket from the bullnose in my 1990 cab:



Here is the bracket in a 92-96 truck:



You will have to do some custom fabrication to make the newer pedal assembly work in an older truck. I can't tell you what that entails past what I've personally done, but expect to have to make custom brackets. Keep in mind your dash frame will have to clear the newer pedal assembly as well, and that might be where you will have the hardest time. I would personally try and hunt down the correct 1983-1986 pedal assembly for your truck. It will save you time and work in the long-run.

[Lila_the81Custom]

Shaun
Thanks so much for the pictures! Super helpful. So I have both pedal boxes, my original 81' as well as the 94' that I pulled the transmission from. So if I am understanding correctly...... I may possibly need the steering bracket plate from the 94' dash? To my understanding, I can't use my 81' pedal box for the 94 hydraulic transmission because the 81' was a mechanical clutch?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think Gary and I both suggested putting a hydraulic clutch actuating arm on the onboard end of your existing mechanical clutch pedal assembly, OR use the hydraulic clutch pedal and slip it into your mechanical pedal set/support.

Then there would be no fabricating brackets or finding a way to attach your old steering column.

The little arm comes off the onboard of the clutch crossover shaft by removing the nut/bolt and hammering or prying it off.
It is meant to cut its own splines as you tighten it onto the shaft.

But I'm not looking at all these parts scratching my head.
So I can't say how feasible that is.

It would be the most expedient and easiest way forward.

I've got no idea if a mechanical clutch has an overcenter spring to return the pedal.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Oh and, I did shoot you an email with my cell# as if I'm not confusing enough.....

[Frank Wyatt]

Remove the manual linkage pedal from the 1981 pedal box and replace it with the pedal from the 1990 pedal assembly. While it is apart that will be an ample opportunity to lubricate the assembly and replace the bushings. This way you will not have to fabricate a mounting plate for the pedal box assembly as the original one to the cab will be getting re-installed, just with the hydraulic clutch pedal instead of the linkage style pedal.

[Gary Lewis]

/\  /\  Yes, what they said!

Just use the hydraulic pedal & shaft from the later box in the Bullnose box.  No need to use the whole box from the later truck as that is a LOT of work.

[ArdWrknTrk]

To Frank's comment I would add two things:

Be careful with lubricant.
Anything oily or sticky will attract dust and grit, making a very nice grinding compound.
Something like Teflon Dry Lube -TDL- from PB Blaster is ideal.
The bushings are plastic and will get worn through. AMHIK!

Take the time to check these grey delrin bushings while you have the pedal box out.
I have seen extreme examples (mostly farm and field trucks that see a lot of dirty boots) where the shaft cuts right into the casting, making the hole egg shaped.

A sloppy crossover shaft will cut down on the amount of clutch disengagement you get.

Another common failure point is the pin that connects to the master cylinders pushrod.
There is a four fingered plastic bushing that holds it together.
If the bushing wears out, the pin gets a groove worn in the back side.
Then there's too much slop to get the hydraulic clutch to release.
And the plastic clip will break the first time you step on the pedal.

That little arm and pin are available new.

But still the plastic clip wears, and should always be replaced.
I let mine go too far and for some years had a brass shell casing JB Welded on there, with a washer and an e-clip in the extractor groove holding the pushrod. (Shadetree at it's finest!)

[Frank Wyatt]

Yes, like Jim said some type of dry lubricant such as what he suggested.

[Lila_the81Custom]

Good Evening All! I hope that everyone had a wonderful holiday! We took a much needed mental break from Ol'Lila......sort of...lol!

Since my last update the serpentine system has been installed minus  my harmonic balancer spacer... comes in (tomorrow). Exhaust manifolds have been mocked up and will be installed as soon as the new oil dipstick tube is placed later this week.


Rear disc conversion is complete....Finally....that was a disaster. Tires have been mounted and are temporarily on truck so driveline can be installed and adjusted accordingly. Due to Lila being originally rear drums, we quickly discovered that the calipers and rims were going to rub. We are currently waiting for 1'' spacers to arrive. Suspension is complete...with purple springs...of course!



Wiring harness has been cleaned, rewrapped, and waiting install.
I am currently recovering the dash cover (no way am I paying to have a new one shipped).

Now, that pedal box has me wondering. Here are the 2 boxes I have:
81'
94'

In order to use my original box I have to utilize the original shaft (length) and clutch pedal (spring location). The  lever on 94' has splines, while the 81' does not.



I was able to fit the 94' lever on the 81' shaft which required boring out the splined portion, which I am now thinking may have been the wrong move. I am wondering if I have to utilize any of the mechanical linkage hardware, as the spring has me incredibly confused as to its functioning.

[Gary Lewis]

Looks like good progress, Jaci.  However, I think you may have made a mistake in boring out the splines.  That is what made the arm rotate with the shaft, but now the arm is likely to slip instead of rotate when you depress the pedal.

As for the spring, it is there to ensure the pedal comes all the way back up.