LeBaront2 to the red courtesy phone! 460 build question

[ArdWrknTrk]

Looking over my options and these two efi engines '89 & '96 it seems to me that a .060 over and zero decked with the E7 pistons at 7 cc dish and D3 heads at 97cc will put me right about 9.5:1.

I know the valve angles changed, and am wondering about valve clearances.
Of course this depends on the cam


A cheap E7TE rebuild kit is $294 from Rock Auto.
Comp 940 springs are $90
And a Summit cam kit is $120
Or the Comp cam for $150 + lifters.

[85lebaront2]

Ok, Nikita, or is it Leonoid or Vladimir? The 1993-97 heads cc'd to 92 ccs on my build, and these were a brand new set of F3TZ heads. The HG diameters were all 4.500" and the compressed thickness varied from .027" to .060". I have the set we didn't use out in my garage, but we are currently experiencing a nasty storm, rain rate of 48-95 "/hr. Once that passes, I can run out and look at what they are.

[85lebaront2]

Ok, I have two Cometic MLS gaskets for a 460, .060 compressed thickness if they are of use to you. On the heads, valve angles may have changed, but the big thing is the intake port angles changed. The two options, there are custom intakes to use a carburetor on EFI heads, or, an adapter for the lower half of the EFI intake (notice it looks like an aluminum version of the 4V intake) There is no exhaust crossover in the heads or intake, so you will need some sort of carburetor heat provision, or, if the aftermarket intake has a crossover, you could run coolant through it like the MEL engines and the old BOP 215 did.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill,
I was asking about running early efi ('88-'92) pistons -7 cc dish- with carb D3VE heads.
This should net me 9.5:1 at zero deck.
A .045 Felpro head gasket would be my quench. Not revving past 6k.

I know about the Price Motorsport CA460-EFI adapter and their angled port plates to run a milled carb manifold on the efi heads.

Regular D3 heads at around 97cc with the efi pistons will get me the CR I'm looking for and are much easier to find than D0VE's.  
I could do a little porting and they would support 350hp easily on stock valve sizes.

F3 pistons have a 15cc dish
D3 pistons have a 22cc dish
E7 pistons have a 7cc dish

[85lebaront2]

Jim, I have that, what you also have to look at is compression height. 1968-87 pistons are 0.230" 21cc dish, compression height of 1.752", 1988-92 pistons are 0.072" 7cc dish, compression height also at 1.752", 1993-97 pistons are 0.180" 16cc dish, but compression height of 1.772".

1968-70 blocks have a deck height that gives essentially a zero deck 10.300" if I remember correctly, 1971 blocks are 10.310" and 1972-97 are 10.320". Scotty has that on his site. The other item, the 1993-97 pistons use thinner (for less drag) rings. Lots of little changes before being dropped.

[Gary Lewis]

460's are complicated!  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Once again I lose my damn post because Gary's menu overlays the reply screen.....
Arrrgh!

(...Lots of babble about my machinist,  the 'new' engine, etc.....)

Bill,
Scott and Paul *seem* to agree that D9TE blocks are at 10.322"
This doesn't really matter it I'm going to have the block decked.
That will be determined on mockup.
And though Paul says only take it to 10.300 because you will have a choice of pistons later down the road, realistically this is the end of the road for this truck and massive ice's in general.

1968-1972 460 pistons stock dish, -12 cc, 1.76 compression height
1973-1986 460 pistons stock dish, -22cc, 1.75 compression height
1987-1992 460 EFI pistons stock dish, -7 cc 1.76 compression height
1993-1997 460 EFI pistons stock dish, -15cc, 1.77 compression height

[Gary Lewis]

Not to hijack this thread, can you take a screenshot of the overlay you are talking about and email me?

[85lebaront2]

Only because they were built from 1968 - 1997, 335s were 1971 - 1982, basically 30 years vs 11 years. You also get into, internal vs external balance on 460s.

[85lebaront2]

That is what I wanted the fellow who built my engine to do, deck the block to 10.300 but he felt it didn't need it and he could get it with heads and gaskets. I was trying for around 9.4/9.5 compression at which a 460 will still tolerate regular fuel. Ended up at 9.23

[Gary Lewis]

True. 335's had one deck height, although several pin-heights as they decreased compression. And one head. Pretty simple.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

Not to hijack this thread, can you take a screenshot of the overlay you are talking about and email me?

When I get back to my tablet.

[ArdWrknTrk]

This is one of the reasons I miss Harry so much.

He would listen -and understand- that having a small chamber to make the CR, but the piston is still .040 or more in the hole is just going to destroy itself.

I'm not interested in running race fuel, way too much cam, and/or timing at tdc to control detonation.

I will tear down this engine and determine if it needs to be bored or the crank needs polish.
35k from new, I hope everything ends up 0/0!
If so I get the kit and mock it up to determine how much to deck each bank. (Because they are often not the same)

[85lebaront2]

Definitely need to check both, my block varied a bit from side to side and end to end on each side. Hopefully, once this weather system (a) makes up it's mind and (b) goes away I hope to be finally getting around to changing Darth's engine, at which point do you still want the old dipstick and tube Jim?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

Not to hijack this thread, can you take a screenshot of the overlay you are talking about and email me?

So, here I am in the reply window, taking a screenshot.

[Gary Lewis]

Wow!  That's UGLY!  

Not sure what to do about it, but need to think about it seriously.  What happens if you rotate your tablet?  On mine, if I go landscape I have the nav menu, but if I go portrait I only have the 3-line "hamburger" menu.

And, this is an Android?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill, that's a very kind offer.

In a few days when I sort out what's going to happen to the engine I will know if I need the old style stick &tube or the newer click in style.

If this engine is a tight inside as I think it may be I will use it pretty much as is.
Then I need to find some D3VE heads that aren't cracked, notched or badly warped.
I will use Scott's templates to clean up the hump and short side, then find a decent machinist to do a 3 angle valve job and cut the guides for seals.

I've asked all my old Mustang buddies but the only one with any recommendation was for 50-60 miles away in north jersey.
Evidently this guy builds 5.0's but knows little about the 385.(makes sense given he wasn't even a teenager when production stopped)

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

Wow!  That's UGLY!  

Not sure what to do about it, but need to think about it seriously.  What happens if you rotate your tablet?  On mine, if I go landscape I have the nav menu, but if I go portrait I only have the 3-line "hamburger" menu.

And, this is an Android?

Yep, Samsung Android

Now the menu goes away but the keyboard is so compressed it's hard for me to type.
And I lose the right side of my reply

[Gary Lewis]

This is going to take a bit of concentration, which I can't do at the moment. And with my memory.... please don't let me forget. 😕