It won't stop...I'm helpless!

[Gary Lewis]

Let's hope that you do NOT have problems!  

But I think it is wise to document everything.  The lube on the cam.  The lube on the lifters.  Maybe the fact that the lifters rotate.  That you pre-lubed the engine by spinning the oil pump before starting.  That you ran the engine at 2000 RPM for at least 20 minutes on the first startup.  EVERYTHING.

[ReneH]

Thanks Gary, I also hope so...

This time I'll use the lifters also from comp cams. I'll also write them directly about this problem. Maybe I'll get them right for a compensation or something like that...

[ReneH]

So I have called the Comp Cams support yesterday.

They promised me, that they currently have no quality problems at all. Last year they had, but the current cams and lifters have a failure rate below 1%.

In hoping that they are right, everything should work fine, when I'm using also the Comp Cams lifters this time...

I mean, how can I find out what fails first and what's only a consequential damage? If some lifters not correctly hardened, the lobe will damage it and make it stuck. If it first stucks, the lobe itself gets damaged.

If the cam is not correctly hardened, the lifter will damage the lobe of the cam and take the ability of the lobe to spin the lifter. Same result as upon...

So, that's my theory...

As I was able to get a small hole with a punch in both defective Comp Cam cams and also in my original 302 cam, I'm assuming, that this may be correct.

Same test with the lifters shows very different results. One of them breaks the tip of my punch...so it seems to be very hard.

I know, that's no exact science, but maybe a hint...I hope it is...
Let's see what the weekend shows up. The parts should arrive on friday...

[mat in tn]

let's hope this gets sorted out for your sake and for the industry. your test with punch is rough but very similar test to how I measure the casting material for projectiles.  the size of the dent in the controlled sample converts to the hardness of the alloy.  so long as you have an apples to apples test it can find drastic variations.

[ReneH]

Yes, that was my thought.

But now, I have to wait another week to start (let's hope for the last time).
Summits parcels are in hold by customs clearing...

So I will finish my Buggy over this long weekend...maybe I can fix this construction side.
Especially as the temperatures raises currently here in Germany.

[ReneH]

Yesterday the lifters from comp cams have arrived...so as opening the parcel I see this:


I've looked closer at the lifters surface...I don't know, if I'm too careful at this time, but some of them have feelable scratches:




And this circular pattern I only have seen on lifters that have already run:


What do you think? Should I use them or not?

[ReneH]

So, Summit-Team says I can use them:

"However, based on the pics you included, these should be fine to use."

That was the answer...what do you think?

[Gary Lewis]

Man, you are having terrible luck on this!  I'm glad that you documented the way you found the lifters and reached out to Summit.  But I think I'd reach out to Comp Cams and show them the pics.  They may not want you to install them.  And if they tell you to use them you should have more comfort than if a vendor tells you.

[85lebaront2]

Rene' the swirl pattern appears to me to be the normal look for a random pattern grinding. If you put a straight edge across them, is there any sort of crown to them (higher in the center)?

On the cam, are the noses ( tip of the lobes) parallel to the centerline of the cam, or do they have a slight slope toward (one side higher than the other) one end of the cam?

Both of these are things we used to look for on new cams and lifters.

[ReneH]

Hi Bill and Gary,

I will call summit later. It's a good idea to let them proof my pics.

I also will do the checks you've told me, Bill and come back later with the results.

[ReneH]

Ok, I've checked it like this:




Is this the way to go for the rest of the lifters and lobes?

[85lebaront2]

Ok, the lifter definitely has a slight crown, meaning it will definitely try to rotate when the cam is turning against it. The lobe looks like it may not have any angle, but with the lifters having a slight crown, it may not be needed.

Follow Comp Cams break in procedure to the letter! To get the ignition timing very close, set the crank on 10° BTDC and with the key on, SPOUT unplugged, rotate the distributor counter clockwise until the Hall Effect pickup is between the vanes, then slowly rotate it clockwise until the coil fires, you may want to do it a couple of times to be sure of the point where it triggers. This should put you easily in the +/- 2° tolerance so you can run the engine for the required break-in time.

Good luck with it!

[ReneH]

Thanks Bill,

I will do so. Thanks for the tips about the time setting with engine off.

I also bought new valve springs from qualcast...do you think I also should change the springs?

I don't think my current installed ones are too loose. This won't fit to the damages I've got. And they can't be too hard, cause they are the original ones from the stock heads...

[ReneH]

Hi Gary,

How should it be different, comp cams said not to use these lifters...

Now I've called Summit and told them about this. The person I've got on the phone also recommended me not to use these lifters. They send me new ones.

So, your intention was right to call comp cams. I have waited one hour in the queue to get someone on the phone...

But everything is better than another tear down of the engine...also as the time is running again for the holidays...

It's a bit wired that the same situation like end of 2022 comes back again...

[Gary Lewis]

Wow!  Murphy was an optimist - whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.  

I'm glad you called them.  But I'm so sorry you are having to go through this - again!  

[AmericanSavage]

This thread is fabulous and heartbreaking, not to mention very instructive.  Thanks for all these updates.  WOW!

[ReneH]

Yeah...I'm honoured to tell about this...

But I'm really happy to be here and have found such a bunch of compressed experience in this place.

Nevertheless it's a shame about the material quality today and I'm not very happy to check all this out in every Fibre that's possible...

I will install the cam, the timing chain case and everything else that's possible on Sunday. Next week the lifters, intake and plenum will follow. I hope in this way I'll save some time....

[Gary Lewis]

Good luck, René!  I hope this time things will go very well and you'll have it up and running correctly, and soon!  

[ReneH]

Thanks Gary!

Now I already have installed the camshaft and remount everything that's possible at this time. I've recorded the process and saved it in a playlist that I will update it the end of this week, when the lifters have arrived.





Here is the playlist

[Gary Lewis]

Looks good!  And I like that the pointer sits right on TDC at the end.