Issues With Big Blue!?!?!

[ArdWrknTrk]

There are certainly other brands of RSK.
I focus on them because their kits seem well thought out and cleanly fabricated, complete-with all the fasteners, and are respected in the community.
You don't hear griping about fit or quality.

As for what length Panhard bar you'll need, I can only say ask them, while making it known that you will be using used SD springs.
Otherwise install and measure.
It wouldn't be hard for you to fabricate or modify one.

I would probably go with bushings.
This truck is going overlanding, not in the Baja 1000.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Does the -003 kit include the LoPro rear spring mounts?

I never really looked into their SD spring kit.

[Gary Lewis]

My email to them said:

I'm installing a Dana 60 straight axle out of a '95 F350 in my '85 F250 and using '06 Superduty springs. Is your FORD-FSROB-003 kit everything I need?

And why would I need an adjustable track bar.

One of my concerns in this is that the SD springs I got are from an '06. But Sky's site says that their kit "Adapts the much better riding 99-04 Superduty Springs". And in another spot it says "Springs: 56" 99-04 Superduty Front Springs". So I'm concerned that maybe I have the wrong springs.

I'll see what they say about things, inc the springs. But, I'll also measure the springs I got to see how long they are compared to that 56" spec.

As for the track bar, I can easily see the need for a longer one - if the height changes so will the diagonal. And I agree that I want bushings and not heim joints given what I'm doing with the truck.

I could make the one I have adjustable by cutting it and installing a large threaded rod. But I think I'd rather buy in a ready-made one.

And to align it, they suggest using plumb bobs, which I'll do. But I would think that lifting the truck with the lift, w/o the track bar installed, and then setting it down would give a good starting point. Yes?

On the LoPro question, I really don't know and could sure use some help there. In poking around on their site I found the document below, which I haven't been able to get my head around yet. And, their heretofore email responses have been less than helpful, so I'm confused.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The PDF doesn't seem confusing.
You have an '85-'97 4wd which will be a stock F-350 once the D60 is installed.

For the spring reversal with Superduty springs you will need 10" shocks and a longer panhard bar.

MAYBE longer brake hoses since you are going 250->350->SD RSK

Hopefully Erik will have an intelligent response to your inquiry.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I just went to the ATS website to see what they showed.

Their '99-'04 V code spring #43-814 is described as being 3 leaf, 3" wide and totals 56 5/8" long with a 18mm bolt in the front and 16 mm in the rear.
2230# capacity

Does that match the springs you have?
I don't see any data for later front Superduty springs.

[salans7]

It was always my understanding that SD trucks went to coil spring in 2005, so how you ended up with '06 leaf springs is beyond me.

[Gary Lewis]

I called Brent and he checked - these springs came off of a 2003 F250 w/a V8, which he says would be the same as for an F350.  But, if they won't work he's happy to exhange.

These measure:

 

54 1/2" c/c on the eyes

57" to the outside of the main spring, as shown below

ID of the inner sleeves is .64" on one end and .68" on the other.  Since 16mm = .63" and 18mm = .71" that seems about right for the bolts.

3" wide

2-leaf pack

[ArdWrknTrk]

2 leaf pack is code U with a 2030# capacity.

Given the winch bumper, 2nd battery, etc.. you may want something stiffer.

JMHO

Edit: there's also code-X @ 2630# capacity

and a HD spring @ 3950#

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I'd come to the same conclusion - the ones I have are 2030 capacity.  And Big Blue's springs are code 7, which are 2755's.

Here's the ATS table, and it gives the info on thickness.  It looks like to get comparable springs I need either the 43-812HD's (2780#'s) or the Code X springs (2630#'s).

At least I have something to look for now.  I'll get with Brent at the salvage and have him look for those springs.  But, what are the thoughts about which ones to look for?

[Nothing Special]

All of the recommendations I've read about improving the ride of 4WD '80 - '97 F-250s and F-350s have said reverse shackle and U code SuperDuty springs.  So you already have what people recommend.

Yes, with your heavier front bumper and winch you might need a little more spring capacity than a stock truck would.  But keep in mind that the SuperDuties seem to be significantly heavier than the older trucks (caution: I don't have data on that, just hear-say).  I think I'd go with the U code springs, especially since you already have them.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Comprable in what way???

I'd go V code on a stock truck
And maybe X code on BB with the added weight.

You're not looking to go back to the overly stiff 250 style spring, so forget what the door sticker says.

[ArdWrknTrk]

An added thought is to your reuse of U-bolts.
Is the 2 spring pack the same thickness as existing in the 350 clip?

Not that I'd let a set of U-bolts stop me from getting the ride I wanted.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Nothing Special wrote

All of the recommendations I've read about improving the ride of 4WD '80 - '97 F-250s and F-350s have said reverse shackle and U code SuperDuty springs.  

Not to doubt, but are these people who want a plush ride on road?

Or, are these people who are going on serious overlanding adventure.

Because I don't think the two are the same.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - Do you know what accessories or engines those folks had?  Or what they were going to do with the truck?

I ask because the 460, winch and bumper, and auxiliary battery really put a lot of extra weight on the front compared to what a stock truck with a 351W would have.

An issue I have is that by the time I get this thing together and test the springs I'd be surprised if Brent would want to trade.  So I'm thinking that beefing up a little bit would be better.  But, that assumes he can find the right springs.

Jim - I'll check the current spring pack on the D60 and see if the u-bolts would accommodate a thicker pack.  And, for grins I'll check the u-bolts that are on Big Blue as they are much too long, so there's a remote chance they'd work.

[Gary Lewis]

The spring pack on the front clip measures 1.255" thick.  And that doesn't seem to correspond to anything I see in the MPC nor in the ATS listings.  Anyway, there's 1/2" of threads sticking out, so it would probably be fine to go with a pack 1 1/2" thick with those u-bolts.

Having said that, the u-bolts on Big Blue are 10" long and have 4" of threads.  But the ones on the '95 clip are only 8" long.  Both appear to be the same diameter and spacing, so I should have whatever u-bolts I need.

[Nothing Special]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Not to doubt, but are these people who want a plush ride on road?

Or, are these people who are going on serious overlanding adventure.

Because I don't think the two are the same.

I can't say for sure, but one is "Diesel_Brad" from the FTE forum.  While I don't think he does any "overlanding", he certainly uses his trucks like trucks.

And I'm not so sure that the two are that different anyway.  While a lot of people use to go overlanding in buckboards, that doesn't mean that modern overlanders should aspire to have vehicles that ride like buckboards.  Yes, the suspension needs to be capable of carrying the weight, but it really shouldn't have a huge safety margin on weight capacity because that leads to a harsh ride, which is hard on vehicle and passengers.  And for front springs especially, the extra gear for long-term camping isn't really a factor since that's almost all on the rear axle anyway.  So it's just a question of whether the front springs can handle the empty weight of the truck.  Which in Big Blue's case isn't insignificant...

Gary Lewis wrote

Bob - Do you know what accessories or engines those folks had?  Or what they were going to do with the truck?

I ask because the 460, winch and bumper, and auxiliary battery really put a lot of extra weight on the front compared to what a stock truck with a 351W would have.

An issue I have is that by the time I get this thing together and test the springs I'd be surprised if Brent would want to trade.  So I'm thinking that beefing up a little bit would be better.  But, that assumes he can find the right springs....

See above, but no, I don't know specifically what everyone was running (although I'm sure Diesel_Brad had at least a 460 if not a 7.3L PowerStroke).

As far as whether it's better to err on the light or heavy side, that's up to you.  I think I'd lean toward the light side for the (not overwhelming) reasons I've already given.  But that doesn't mean that's the right choice for you.

But do keep in mind (as Jim already pointed out) that you DON'T want to match the TTB spring rate.  As already discussed, the solid axle springs will seem much stiffer than the TTB springs due to suspension geometry.  So compare to other solid axle vehicles.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I have a LOT to learn on this.  So, how 'bout this approach?  I'll call Brent and see if I can get a rain check on the swap.  I think he'll be fine with that since he knows my brother and both his boys.  In fact, one lives less than a mile from the salvage and is there about every other weekend.

If he's cool with that, or even if he'l want a bit to trade, then I'll try these springs and swap if needed.  Surely swapping springs isn't that hard once everything else is done.  Put it on the lift, come down lightly on the safety stand under the axle, and remove the spring.  Right?

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Surely swapping springs isn't that hard once everything else is done.  Put it on the lift, come down lightly on the safety stand under the axle, and remove the spring.  Right?

That should pretty much be it.  Of course "remove the spring" can be a nightmare with rusted bolts, but that won't be an issue with springs that were just installed.  And I'd recommend replacing one spring at a time so everything pretty well stays in place through the process.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Keep in mind that spring rate and spring capacity are two entirely different things.

One is how much it takes to deflect the spring X distance, and that can be progressive as well.
The other is how much the spring will be carrying at its design deflection.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, one spring at a time is the way to do it.  And on the driver's side it isn't going anywhere since the panhard rod will still be on, although since it connects to the passenger's side bracket it will have to come off when that spring comes off.

And, the plan is coming together.  I talked with Brent Lumbert, who runs the salvage, and he said he will remember me, so go ahead and try those springs and then come back if they don't work, even many months down the road.

Plus I heard back from Erik at Sky, who said:

Yes it comes with the correct lo-pro shackle hangers.  It will have everything to hang the springs (minus the springs)

Adjustable panhard bar is recommended with that setup, you will most likely need longer shocks as well

Looks like we have a plan!