Ignition and Carb replacement.

[Arrgo]

I am planning on doing the DS-II ignition swap from the EEC and feedback carb.

These are the items I plan on using.

Distributor:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sgt-fd11

Ignition Box:
https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts/ford-module-assy-ignition-amplifier_1u2z-12a199-aa.html?vin=&make=Ford&model=F-150&year=1985&submodel=&extra1=8%20Cyl%205.0L&extra2=4-Speed%20Automatic%20Transmission%20AOD&filter=()

Harness:
https://www.jegs.com/i/Painless/764/30812/10002/-1?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg42f1d3s9QIVhZ6zCh3fXwiVEAQYAiABEgL7bfD_BwE#

Coil:
https://www.holley.com/products/ignition/ignition_coils/street/performance_street/parts/8223

Plug Wires:
??? (not sure if some are better then others, suggestions?)

If there is any thing I'm missing, or if anyone has better suggestions, please let me know. While I am at it I would like to remove the smog pump and EGR.


I would also like to put a 4 bbl carb on it. I know I need a new intake manifold, gaskets, plumbing, and of course, the carb. I am extremely new to engine work besides basic maintaince, so I am extremely naive, if anyone has tips, they'll be greatly appreciated.

[Gary Lewis]

That's a complex subject since you threw in the removal of EGR.  That's because the distributor needs to be "curved" for either EGR or no EGR.  The reason is that addition of an inert gas (exhaust) to the air/fuel mix slows the combustion of the mix.  So the timing needs to be advanced significantly to accommodate that, and that is done in the distributor.  But if you take the exhaust gas away the advanced timing will cause pinging if not detonation.

So, if you are going to remove the EGR I'd suggest you get a distributor set up for that.  And that's where the problems arise as you probably won't find a distributor advertised for that.  And since the one you linked to doesn't say, and it isn't available anyway, I recommend you talk to Scotty at Parkland Performance.  Tell him everything about your setup, inc what intake and carb you are going with, and he should be able to sell you a distributor that is curved for that application.  (Scotty is a member on here but is rarely on.  But you can tell him you were directed there from here.)

As for the harness, that should work.  But "Painless" is a bit of a misnomer as it won't be.  We will need to help you through that as your existing harness has the oil pressure and water temp wiring in it, so you can't just unplug it and throw it away.

The DS-II module should work fine.  But there are "good" modules and "not so good" modules.  The Motorcraft ones and some of the high-end ones, like NAPA Gold if I remember correctly, have a retard feature in them that helps in starting the engine.  But cheaper ones don't.  I can't tell about the one in the link, but it does have the blue grommet and that's a DS-II module.

But I don't think you want to use that coil.  It says it is for the MSD module, which probably means it is a high-current coil and that DS-II module isn't going to like it.  You really don't want to run anything but a stock coil with a DS-II module or the module could fail.

[rcarlisle]

When I click on the distributor at Summit, it comes up as "unavailable" and obsolete.

With that said, when I bought my truck it had (Still does) an electronic distributor in it that works.  My EGR is capped at the back.  Appears to be this unit https://swperformanceparts.com/product/r2r6702r-spw013r-cr6928r-coil-wire/   

I won't get into the arguments of the quality or origin of this unit.   It has worked flawlessly in the almost year I have owned the truck.   When I bought the truck, the number 3 tower on cap was cracked on both sides and very loose.  BUT it was not missing or running poorly.   I bought 2 replacement caps.  

My engine is an Auto Zone reman with minimal smog stuff on it.   All this was done before I bought the truck.  And part of the reason I bought the truck.  All the hard work was done.

In my setup, it appears that they hooked it up with the vac advance.  It can be hooked up differently as well.  My DS box is disconnected.  

Before I went to ALL of the changes you have mentioned, I would probably concentrate on ONE project at a time, especially since you say you are new to some of this.  

Stay with the 2bbl for a while - they run so well, it's hard to beat them.  A 4bbl on most of these engines is for looks.  The engines just weren't perfomance oriented in that era.    You can make it perform much worse with just a carb change and nothing else downstream, i.e cam, heads, exhaust, etc.  

And some of this will depend on what kind of smog inspections you have in your state. IN NC, we have no inspections on vehicles over 30 years old.  

Good luck and be sure to post up as you go through the project.  

[85lebaront2]

Randy, you hit the nail on the head on lack of performance. The 1985-86 302 truck heads are the worst heads Ford ever used on the Windsor engines (221-351W).

[LARIAT 85]

I did this to my own truck about 10 years ago.  Unfortunately, this may not as simple as you might think.  Yes, you can get your truck up and running again with the potential to make it run much better did it ever did when it was new.  Or, you can make it worse and very unreliable.

Even though these are analog systems that don't require an engine computer, there is still quite a bit of engineering involved .  To really get it right, the carburetor and distributor needs to be a matched pair - sized and curved to your vehicle type, engine size, cam selection, transmission type, and emissions equipment.  And then the selection and quality of aftermarket parts make a big difference as well.  

I love my carbureted vehicle, and it has been very reliable for me.  But I spent a LOT of time learning and getting the right parts, and finding good quality NOS Ford Motorcraft parts fairly cheaply when hardly anyone else cared.  But I am not sure that is cost effective anymore.  The supply of junkyard parts is drying up, NOS parts are getting harder to find and expensive, and aftermarket parts are mostly junk now.  Not to mention hardly anyone knows how to work on a carburetor anymore.  If you aren't willing to take the time, there is a good chance you will spend a lot of money only to be disappointed at the end.  

Unless you really want a simple carbureted vehicle, you may come out ahead with an aftermarket fuel injection system.  A good one will come in a kit with everything you need, and it will even self-tune.  In the end, it will make about the same power as a perfectly matched carbureted system without the headache.

Or fun, if you will.

[mat in tn]

I will agree with last two posters. I, myself have a strong preference for carbs. my daily is an 86 300-6 /c6. carbed with thick film dist and a "carb ecu". I actually typed that without laughing.
there is certainly a learning curve with them. in the age when a "mechanic" plugs in a device and asks the vehicle what he or she should look for, we get impatient and just want the answer. this is old school however where the only data logging, learning ecu is the one between your ears.  in one of my other lives, I am also a percussion projectile remanufacturing technician (those who know, know). I get asked about the how's and whys and benefits often. I always say you will love it or hate it! very little middle ground. this group is extremely helpful, and I love the chance to participate even when opinions differ. this is how men and mentorship are meant to be although in person is far superior!

[Rembrant]

Arrgo wrote

Ignition Box:
https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts/ford-module-assy-ignition-amplifier_1u2z-12a199-aa.html?vin=&make=Ford&model=F-150&year=1985&submodel=&extra1=8%20Cyl%205.0L&extra2=4-Speed%20Automatic%20Transmission%20AOD&filter=()

I would be at least a little bit wary of that ignition module, unless you can confirm that it is a 100% OEM part, and not an "aftermarket Ford" module.

As Gary noted above, some of the aftermarket ignition modules for some reason or another have the retard on start feature deleted....even the Ford labeled modules. I bought one when I was cleaning up my engine bay (from Amazon) and my truck suddenly became difficult to start. I was running a lot of advance...like 17 degrees...but still, the truck worked fine with the original 35 year old Ford module. I ended up switching back to the original, and the truck started and worked great.

I believe the Echlin TP-40 box from Napa has been confirmed to have the start feature.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHTP40

All of the original Ford boxes (Blue strain relief) are fine, obviously.

If you're not running a huge amount of IGN advance, it probably doesn't matter...but it's just something to be aware of.

[Arrgo]

Currently my EGR and smog pump are there, but not connected. There is no pinging, and it runs, and drives fine. will the complete removal change anything, even though it is inactive now.

As for the ignition box, was this the one you were referring too?
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/MPETP40SB

For the coil, I will use the stock one.

[Gary Lewis]

The EGR is the issue.  But you say it isn't connected?  By that I assume you mean there's no vacuum to it?

If that is the case it can still be leaking exhaust gas into the intake.  EGR valves are known to stick and leak.  So to take it out completely you have to fashion a block off plate.

And I think that is the Echlin DS-II module that is known to work, but I'll let others who would know better speak to that.

[Whisler]

I agree that if you are going to do it, do it in 2 stages. Thats what I did, and it worked well. I first converted to DS2 while retaining the 2-barrel carb setup, although I did switch to the non-feedback 2-barrel carb. Later I installed a 4-barrel manifold and carb.  

[Arrgo]

Can you describe or send photos on how it hooks up to your DS harness?

[66gtk]

Regarding EGR - my truck was having some intermittent issues and I tried everything including replacing and calibrating the TPS.  All the EEC-III stuff is hooked up.  I eventually did some testing simply unplugging and sealing off the vacuum hose from the EGR and the truck ran better than ever, and it kept doing so!  I eventually replaced the EGR with the correct replacement (that's a fun thing to research and find) and the truck keeps working very well for the entire season last year.  I guess I post this to question if the EGR stuff is really that essential to the truck running well.  In my case, a bad/plugged up EGR made the truck run worse than no EGR hooked up and I can't tell the difference with a new EGR/no EGR running condition.  I did not examine fuel economy differences.

[Gary Lewis]

Glad you got your truck running well.  But one of the failure modes of an EGR valve is to stick open.  So pulling the vacuum line leaves it leaking - all the time, not just when vacuum is applied.  So the truck gets exhaust gas when it isn't supposed to, and runs poorly.

I don't know that your problem was due to that, but it is possible.

[Megiddo]

My 351 came with the EEC and feedback carb, but the PO had pulled all the exhaust side emissions and sensors off.  It ran very poorly.  I started with a straight 2150 2 barrel and a hybrid GM style HEI distributor.  That was simple, and not too expensive and got it drive-able in a hurry. It worked fine until it didn't.  I went through 2 of those distributors and then bought a Pertronix.  So far so good.  I am really trying to keep it as simple as possible.  I then swapped on an Edlebrock intake and Holley 4 barrel and put on shorty headers (exhaust manifold was cracked).  It all runs fine and I'm comfortable with my level of technology (limited troubleshooting skills).  I agree with the one step at a time.