Hydroboost Planning

[Ford F834]

In the for-what-it’s-worth department, in all my reading on Saginaw conversions I have never heard any mention of multiple pressure line fitting types other than being different than C2. The business end that I bought for my conversion was packaged as a 3/8” fuel line repair kit so I’m thinking it must be a fairly standard thing?

[85lebaront2]

Gary, remember when I took the pictures of the 460 Saginaw and one of the Chrysler 2.2/2.5L ones. The outlet fitting and flow control valve are what changes the actual pump portion, then the "ham can" or small round can + the pulley fits it to the engine application. Chrysler used the O-ring on the end of the tube as does GM with a fixed tube, Ford likes the swivel O-ring design.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill, this is exactly what I meant above.
That the other automakers use different output fittings.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok guys, the plot thickens.  First, here's the fitting on the Sag for Dad's truck, which clearly takes a flare:




And here's the fitting on the Sag from the '95 Superduty with a partial o-ring in it on the left, which is what was confusing me, and w/o it on the right.  Obviously it takes a fitting with an o-ring on the end.




Then here's the hose fitting that is needed, which is the end of the Chevy hose with the partial 0-ring dug out of the Sag fitting:




Then here's the fitting on the C-II pump from the Superduty and the fitting on the hose that mated with it.  I don't fully understand how this seals as the tip of the hose fitting is .250" OD at its smallest point and the hole in the pump's fitting is .1875".  But, that's really not important as we've figured out what the Saginaw pumps I have need.

[Gary Lewis]

So, there are at least two fittings for the Sag pump - flare and o-ring style.  I don't remember off hand where I got the one for Dad's truck, but will look for what I said when I got it.  But we know the one for the Superduty takes an o-ring.

So now we need to decide on the best approach to get the right hose.  Here are three different approaches, but I'm sure there are others.  Please chime in:

Use the flare fitting, either via using the pump that was for Dad's truck or swapping fittings.  And then have a hose made with a flare on the bottom.  That could be done via using the Superduty replacement hose like Alfie did.

Stay with the o-ring fitting and have that style of end put on a new Superduty hose.

Use the o-ring fitting and have a new fitting put on the top of the Chevy hose - assuming the Chevy hose will connect to the pump w/o a lot of re-bending, and I'll check that out after lunch......

[Gary Lewis]

The Chevy hose has a long metal tube down at the bottom that has all the wrong bends on it, so it isn't a good place to start.  I think I'll return it and get the Superduty hose that goes to the C-II pump and then have a new fitting put on it.

But I need to figure out what bends it ought to have in the metal tubing, so I put the bits and pieces together to see what would be needed.

First, here are the lines connected to the booster.  The low pressure return and the supply from the pump are the ones that came with the booster from the Superduty.  The high pressure return is the new Superduty one.




And this shows the lower end:




And then here's the back of the pump.  The red line shows what I'm thinking for the metal line to go to the pump's output, and there's plenty of room to make gentle bends.  And, Jonathan, do you remember what the bracket circled in yellow goes to?




And I installed the cooler off Huck:




And here are the low pressure return lines.  the return from the hydrobooster fits the Saginaw pump like it was made for it, and I'll install a tee as shown and connect the return from the cooler to it.  The return line from the booster measures .388 ID and the one from the cooler measures .313".  But a 3/8" barb fits perfectly.

[Gary Lewis]

The return labeled is printed for the Chevy line and the Superduty line is on order.  Now I need to find someone that will put the fitting the new hose.  IIRC I've had O'Reilly's here make hoses.  Or was it Bumper To Bumper?  Guess I need to talk to these folks and see.

[Ford F834]

In AZ I could not get any of the parts houses to make one, even Napa. I had to go to a machine shop.

[Gary Lewis]

Bummer!  I hope that isn't the case here.  

[85lebaront2]

We have an independent jobber here that will make hoses, a lot of what they do is heavy stuff, farm equipment and big trucks.

What is the strange bracket on the Saginaw pump?

[Gary Lewis]

I don't know what the bracket is.  Was hoping Jonathan knows since he pulled the pump off the van.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, the C2 pump fitting seals at the outer end, under the hex, probably uses a washer or O-ring into a recess, it should be a swivel fitting that allows the hose to move if needed.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I found another hose I have that actually has a nylon gasket under the head of the fitting.  So I realized that's how it seals there.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Both my NAPA's have shops attached to them.
So did CarQuest, before Advance bought them out.

Around here any place that services plows or construction equipment will make up hydraulic lines on the spot.
Upfitter's that do plows, places that rent Bobcats, excavators and the like (United Rentals) or dedicated hydraulic shops.
Personally, I like Midland Truck Parts because I know everyone from the drivers to the manager, and they take care of me.

[Ford F834]

85lebaront2 wrote

What is the strange bracket on the Saginaw pump?

The bracket is a serpentine 7.5L van bracket from a 1995 E350 Econoline. In addition to the large aluminum casting there was a steel leg that braces the back of the pump to the block.

[Gary Lewis]

Ford F834 wrote

In addition to the large aluminum casting there was a steel leg that braces the back of the pump to the block.

Jonathan - I can't get that bracket to go to the block any way I twist it.  Do you remember where on the block?

All - I think I may have figured things out on the needed hose.  Let's see if I can articulate it.....

The fitting that goes into this Saginaw is a 3/8" pipe fitting with a .375" OD tube.  And the business end of the tube where the o-ring goes is .337", with the o-ring itself measuring .300 ID x .430 OD x .067" thick as best I can measure.

The local parts stores don't have the right fittings, but recommended that I go to Ameriflex to have that fitting put on the end of the new hose.  And, from the info that came with the hose, shown below, that is a Standard O-Ring Flare.



So that left me trying to figure out what bends I want on it.  I found this one up in the attic, and while its fitting is a flare instead of an o-ring flare, meaning it is probably the right end for Dad's truck, it does screw into the fitting so it let me mock it up.



And here's a couple of shots of how it would fit.  I'd been thinking that it should come out, turn right, then left/straight back and connect to the hose.  What do you think?  

[Gary Lewis]

Just talked to the folks at AmeriFlex.  They don't really bend up a whole new end.  Instead they usually have 5 or 6 different bent ends for any given fitting, and will lay them out on the counter and let me pick one of them.  But, they might be able to tweak one a bit.

I doubt that they are going to have one as fancy as shown above.  So I'm thinking of what will work.  If they have one that'll do what is shown below it'll work great.

But it only takes "5 minutes" once I pick one, so next week after the one comes in from Rock Auto I'll go down and see what we can do.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, I would first turn it around so the slot is on the pump. It may go to an exhaust manifold bolt.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Bill.  I did that thinking as you that it might go to an exhaust manifold bolt, but it didn't in that try.  Maybe I'll give it another go tomorrow.

But that aluminum bracket is SOLID.  I'm not sure it really needs a brace.  However, if I can get it to go somewhere I'll use it.

[85lebaront2]

Mine didn't come with a brace.