Help choosing a replacement carburetor

[Gary Lewis]

I may actually have a 4180 that would work.  If I remember correctly it came from an '85 351HO, which should be the same engine Steve has.

But personally, I'd rather have the Eddy.  As you point out, Jim, the 4180 isn't adjustable.  It is a serious emissions carb.  The Eddy is adjustable and if Steve has someone to help him I think it can be tuned to pass the test.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I guess the $64,000 question is whats required in central NY state?
I know here in Westchester, NYC and Long Island pre OBD II vehicles get a chassis dyno and only a cursory glance under the hood.

Remember that the over 8,500 gvw 250's with a 351 HO were non-catalyst and were exempt from the tune a 150 would have.

If Steve has a functioning AFB it can definitely pass the sniffer (and it won't cost a penny, let alone $565)

[Steve's Lariat]

I was told by a garage that, similar to how Jim described the Westchester/NYC area, the truck wouldn't get a deep dive into the emissions during inspection. But it def won't pass with the hosing disconnected. You have to make a show of it at least.

Part of why I considered replacing the Edelbrock is I figured the issues with the poor performance right now are related to the aftermarket carb or the way it was set up. But as some have pointed out, it may be that with a kick-down linkage adapter and other fixes, the Eddy will run a lot smoother and I won't have to spend the money.

 





 

[LARIAT 85]

Gary Lewis wrote

But personally, I'd rather have the Eddy.  As you point out, Jim, the 4180 isn't adjustable.  It is a serious emissions carb.  The Eddy is adjustable and if Steve has someone to help him I think it can be tuned to pass the test.

The Edelbrock is a *universal* carburetor that is designed to work on any engine, while the Motorcraft 4180 is specifically calibrated for a particular [stock] application.  Engine design, vehicle size and weight, and even transmission type was all taken into account when these were calibrated from Ford.  That means - assuming you get the right one and the engine is relatively stock - it requires minimal adjustments to work well.

The Motorcraft 4180 has annular discharge boosters on the primaries, which atomize fuel almost as well as fuel injection.  And the choke system works much better than anything the aftermarket offers.  Yes, it is a "serious" emissions carburetor, but that also makes it a very "precise" carburetor.  This was the very last carburetor designed by Ford, which means it was also the most accurate carburetor they ever offered.

I used to think those steel "tamper-proof" plugs were silly, too.  But I get what they were trying to do.  The plugs were put there to stop people from mis-adjusting the air/fuel mixture to cover up other engine problems.  This usually hurt economy and emissions.  In most cases, the carburetor is not the problem.  If the carburetor isn't easily adjustable, then someone is more likely to look elsewhere to find and fix the real problem.  

There are plenty of guys over on the four-eyed (1979 - 1986) Mustang forums that still run the Motorcraft 4180 with great results.  The jets, power valve, and accelerator pump squirters can all be adjusted and tuned with Holley parts to run better on today's fuel.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

You said "Edelbrock Racing", do you know if your truck wears an AFB or an AVS?
There are some subtle differences in how you tune them.
But in my experience, if properly chosen, Edelbrock's run pretty well right out of the box.

Poor performance can be a lot of things.
Plugged Cat
Worn out timing chain
Even a dirty fuel filter

A baseline tune-up with new plugs, rotor, filters and check the timing will eliminate a lot of possibilities.
But something like a worn out cam gear will have it sluggish, rich and spitting out the carb.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Rick, I get what you're getting at.
Don't mess with success

And if you have a concours (all stock) truck I understand.

The 4180 in my truck didn't have jet plates like my 'notch, or the one pictured in the article you linked.
There were a bunch of differences between the two, and why I said the pn needed to be identified before ordering a 4180.

I did have a chuckle at photo 20 where hot rod shows some generic 750 with a StubStack.
(750 because it has a dual feed log on the right)

The steel plugs are there because the federal government mandated the carb to be tamper proof.
The same reason the choke cap was held by breakaway screws.
And (on my truck's carb) just pressed orifices in the metering plates.

Whoever butchered the base flange to get those plugs out should have their tool box taken away.
There's NO reason for that except you're lazy and don't know how to use a drill.

[Whisler]

If you need the kickdown linkage I will send you mine for free. It was too much of a pain to hook up and I don't need it as I use a ratchet shifter and can just reach down and slap it into 2nd gear.

[Steve's Lariat]

Jim, still figuring out which model Edelbrock I have. The truck is at a local garage at present.

I probably should have said I'm turning to dealing with the carb after taking care of several other things, including: New ball joints, new tie rods, tightened steering box, new alternator, new battery (one with the proper CCA), new voltage regulator, new air filter, new fuel filter, new plugs and plug wires, oil change and new distributor cap.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Okay, that's great!
Beyond getting the charging and steering in order, having new tune-up components will eliminate a bunch of variables and possibly highlight your problem if it doesn't solve it.

You should take Whisler up on his offer.
Having the kickdown properly connected will make the truck easier to drive.

[Steve's Lariat]

Hey, thank you. If I keep the Edelbrock, I'll take you up on that offer.  

[Whisler]

Just let me know.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

You should be able to tell from the VIN, which shows on the Certification Label on the driver's door jamb.  The 8th digit gives the engine code, with a G indicating a 351W 2bbl and an H representing a 351W 4bbl.

Hi Gary,
In BigBrother, the motor is not the original one (I swapped it around 2013, was rebuilt in 2015).  It is a 351w 4v.
Went to NAPA Auto Parts in order to renew distribution cap and rotor, the guy asked me if "code H or G".  Since the motor is a replacement one (and the VIN certainly went out during the restoration), can I assume that a 4v is necessarily a Code H?
Thanks!

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, you can tell him that it is an H.  

[BigBrother-84]

Thanks!

[HrdAngln]

Welcome, Steve.  

I actually have the same question, but I have a 400M.  I was thinking of maybe getting the manual choke edlebrock performer.  If anyone has suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

- Jason

[Gary Lewis]

I ran an Edelbrock intake and 600 CFM Performer carb on a warmed up 351M and it ran great.  All the carb that engine needed.

And I ran the same carb on Big Blue for a bit and it worked fine, but the 750 CFM has more high-end power so that's what I'm running.

I think a 600 is probably adequate for a stock 400.  (There's no "M" on a 400.  There was no other 400 so Ford saw no need to add an alpha suffix for it like the did with the 351's.)

[Dipstik86]

If you daily it and don't care about power get an Edelbroken, if you like having adjustable everything and don't mind playing with said adjustments and want max power go with a Holley style carb.

[mat in tn]

personally i just prefer the holley .  however the edelbrock avs2 is an excellent choice. drive ability is good . i generally will use 600cfm with a 5.0 and 750 on 5.8.  holley is what ford used on the 4v models and i like to use the oem ones when i can.

[Gary Lewis]

And I prefer anything but a Holley.  I've had way too many power valve, accelerator pump, and bowl gasket problems.  So I like the set and forget approach that the Carterbrocks give for anything but racing. However, if I was racing I'd probably go with a Holley.

On carb sizing, the Holley 4180-C that Ford used on the 302HO, 351HO, and 460 is rated at just 600 CFM.  And while I'm running a 750 Eddy on Big Blue at the moment, I did prove that he'd run just fine with a 600 CFM Eddy.  In fact, the only difference I could tell is when he was winding up, and there the 750 had a bit more.  

[Machspeed]

As I stated earlier in this thread, I really like my Edlebrock 1406. It's been a great carb, easy to work on, reliable, no issues. As the AVS version has annular discharge, I wondered if my 1406 could be converted to annular discharge. In a web search that lead me down many paths, not finding what I was looking for, I did stumble on an interesting option in the Summit M2008. This was originally developed by Holley but then dumped for a few reasons and then picked up by Summit and modified. The reviews on this carb are very good and it has a lot of nice things about it including annular discharge. Yes, it still has the old power valve for which many complain about, but for some that is just not an issue. Based off what I read, if I were looking at purchasing a new 600 CFM carb, I might just take a chance on this.

 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-m08600vs