Hello from Upstate SC

[jchalo99]

I purchased my lovely truck from an estate auction on 12/16/21 (Great DEAL).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7S417hgUxQYz5A4B7
I had it towed to my house. While loading it up on the tow truck i saw a tow strap already attached to the front cross member. that was my indication of what i got my self into.

Get it home and start looking it over. Tires flat, drivers window regulator broken, some rust. wiring is destroyed. i already knew that from the pictures, but good to confirm it.

I started with checking the grounds. Than the starter wiring (needed a new solenoid and starter) than the distributer and the ignition module wiring. I also needed to redo the gauges.

It needed new coil, spark plugs, wires, rotor and cap, new fuel lines, fuel selector valve, and new tires.

After a while (02/10/22)  (winter & vacations & other priorities) i got it running and driving around the neighborhood. but than the new starter broke. and the Ignition control module died. now having other issues.

My timing changed... or something happened. before the ICM died the vacuum advance was pointed almost perfectly straight forward, now i cant get it to run unless it is rotated as far clockwise as possible.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Welcome!  
You've got a lot accomplished in just a couple of months.

Yes, it's a T-19. Only manual that came behind a 460 or 6.9 until '87 when you had the option of a Zf-5 speed.

How many miles on the truck?
You might want to check that the timing chain hasn't skipped.
You can get an idea of the slop by putting a 15/16 breaker bar on the crank and removing the distributor cap.
Rock the crank back and forth and see how far the crank turns before the rotor changed direction.

[Gary Lewis]

Welcome!  Glad you joined.  

I agree with Jim, it sounds like it jumped time due to a very loose timing chain.

Where's home?  What city in SC?  I ask because we have a map (Bullnose Forum/Member's Map in the menu) and can add you with a city or zip.

[mat in tn]

I love the truck. it's a big job to restore it. I noticed that my favorite old school feature was ruined though. I love the front air dam.
isn't "upstate SC" really just NC?

[grumpin]

Welcome!

[jchalo99]

Im around Greer SC.

[jchalo99]

Thank you! its been a fun side project.
There is Either 66k or 166k on the truck. i bet it is closer to 66k because it sat for many years before I pulled it out of a widows yard.

I checked the slop this morning, and had about 7-10 deg of slack. the chain and gaskets don't look to expensive so i think i am going to tear it open and replace.

Ive read about the stock retarded chain vs the straight up chain. what part number should i look at getting?

[Gary Lewis]

You are now on the map.

As for a timing chain, I'd go with a name brand double-roller like a Cloyes or similar.

[ArdWrknTrk]

These engines come with nylon teeth on the cam gear. When they start to shred they clog the oil pickup screen.
I've found I get about 75k on the hy-vo type timing set that came installed on these engines, but with 30 year old oil soaked plastic you might expect it to get brittle before that mileage.

All fuel injected 460's used a non-retarded roller timing set. So you can either use something like the Cloyes 3122 or just a stock replacement for a later engine ('88 on)
Do expect the roller is going to make a little bit more noise than the old silent type chain and a nylon gear.
If you go with the aftermarket chain you probably want to assemble it "straight up" (the triangle on the crank gear aligns with a tooth)

Be very careful assembling the timing case that you seal the water passages without blocking the convolute weep path of the rear gasket.
These are there to give indication of a coolant leak and divert it from going straight into the oil pan.
Also make sure the water pump backing plate isn't badly corroded. If you're in that far don't put a heavily pitted one back.
FRPP sells a new one for under $50....
Some of the water pump bolts go all the way through. So you're going to want to seal the threads on them.
I use Loctite PST on all the threads because it keeps out corrosion and provides lubrication.
Hopefully the timing case bolts aren't corroded tight into the aluminum. (this, and pitting of the gasket faces are common issues)
Check that the pork chop balance weight behind the harmonic doesn't have a groove worn where the FMS rides.
SpeediSleeves are available to repair this.

If you run into trouble or have questions let me know.

[jchalo99]

Thanks for the tips. Got the front of the engine torn down today. Uploaded new pics and video to the Google album.

Before I got in there someone must have been here... their was a broken bolt and a helicoil repair job. The broken bolt was holding the cover in place and made it fun to remove.

I will be placing my order for parts today, hopefully put it all back together next weekend.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not seeing them.  🙄
Your Hammerite gauge bezel looks sharp BTW!  

So, how slack was the chain?
Does it look like a bunch of nylon ended up in the oil pan?

I looked at my post above and it seems that Cloyes doesn't sell the timing set I've always used anymore.  
But they do have a true double roller set that isn't retarded and is under $60.

[jchalo99]

Thanks, needed to make something to hold the gauges. paint didn't stick perfectly, but it works.

should be the last images in the album, but here is a direct link to see the slack. https://photos.app.goo.gl/tztBkXSsij6UFPTs9

i would say just a bit over half an inch. without any struggle.

I am looking at the CLOYES C3013K (cheap and stock) or the CLOYES C3079X heavy duty double roller with straight up and +/- 4deg keyways.

The water pump backer plate looked good, but will be replacing all gaskets. the water pump itself, the harmonic balancer, and thermostat.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The 3013 is a hy-vo chain but you can see the crank keyway isn't aligned with the tooth....


The HD 3079 one you show doesn't appear to have true rollers, but is miles ahead of the retarded 3013*

Did you look at a basic replacement chain for an '88 & up 7.5?

[ArdWrknTrk]

The Melling 3-168SD is stock replacement for the EFI  engines.
It's $41.79 from Rockauto.


OEM is the Mahle SEP79.
Summit has it for $74.99.



Neither of these have any adjustment. They are both "straight up"

They are Discontinued/NLA through FoMoCo parts system.

https://www.wholesalefordpartsfast.com/oem-parts/ford-timing-chain-d4tz6268a?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmbD0zNCZuPUFzc2VtYmxpZXMgUGFnZSZhPWZvcmQmbz1mLTM1MCZ5PTE5OTAmdD14bCZlPTctNWwtdjgtZ2Fz
https://www.wholesalefordpartsfast.com/oem-parts/ford-camshaft-gear-d9hz6256a?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmbD0zMiZuPUFzc2VtYmxpZXMgUGFnZSZhPWZvcmQmbz1mLTM1MCZ5PTE5OTAmdD14bCZlPTctNWwtdjgtZ2Fz
https://www.wholesalefordpartsfast.com/oem-parts/ford-crankshaft-gear-e7tz6306b?c=Zz1lbmdpbmUmcz1lbmdpbmUmbD0zMyZuPUFzc2VtYmxpZXMgUGFnZSZhPWZvcmQmbz1mLTM1MCZ5PTE5OTAmdD14bCZlPTctNWwtdjgtZ2Fz

[ArdWrknTrk]

Thanks for the link.  

Yeah, wow! that's flapping around in the breeze.
The cam teeth look pretty spent.
Was the chain loose enough that it made contact with the inside of the timing case?
Is your fuel pump eccentric not spinning? Or is it just really dirty because the PO never changed the oil?

[jchalo99]

Thanks for the part numbers. i am going to stick with the C3079x due to shipping from rock auto. parts will be here in a week.

The mechanical fuel pump was working.

this engine bay will be getting a bath today.

[jchalo99]

got the new parts in. installed the timing chain, and water pump. went to install the harmonic balancer and noticed that the timing marks are very different from the one i took off. I have added pictures to the album in my signature, but the link below is to the best picture.

the one i took off had 30btdc in line with the keyway (opposite side)
the new one has 30ATDC lined up.

I stopped for the night to figure this out.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hsriYD1U4W5HWUPF8

[ArdWrknTrk]

60° out seems like it could never work.

That old harmonic damper looks in rough shape.

Have you considered that the ring with the timing marks might have spun?
Because that's what happens when the rubber loses it's bond.

Do you recall where the timing marks were when you had to rotate the distributor way around to get the truck to run?

[Gary Lewis]

I agree - the old damper looks rough.  And the new one looks just like the one I put on Big Blue.

I'd find TDC and see where the marks on the damper go.

[jchalo99]

I have considered that it spun. Especially with the rubber pushed away. But it was running ok at 28btdc.

The old one has marks for 30btdc to 10atdc. The new one is 10btdc to 40 atdc.