Gas tank interference woes

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - You are right.  This is one of those things where I'd bet Ford consolidated the remaining VSS and speedo cables from the earlier version at certain plants and installed them until they run out.

[Pete Whitstone]

Gary Lewis wrote

Bill - You are right.  This is one of those things where I'd bet Ford consolidated the remaining VSS and speedo cables from the earlier version at certain plants and installed them until they run out.

I'm very used to this in my other automotive projects. They are Italian so it's even more confusing because Italian car companies of the 70's-80's did things a lot different than in America.

Italians kind of split the job of building a car up. A design house/chassis manufacturer (called a Carrozzeria in Italian) would design the car body and chassis. The two big Carrozzeria of the time were Bertone and Pinninfarina. Bertone worked a lot with Lamborghini, while Pinninfarina worked mostly with Ferrari and Lancia, but there was some cross-over in both directions. Then the auto manufacturers (Fiat, Ferrari, Lamborghini, DeTomaso, etc.) had the chassis/body shipped to their factories and the drivetrain and all the running components were installed.

Since the production volume was often low, the Carrozzeria used parts until they ran out. So while a particular option was supposed to end or start on a model year boundary, it really did not work that way. Cars built in certain years had uncertain components or options, because they ran out of something, or had surplus of something.

I'm sure all manufacturers do it, but with Ford's manufacturing volume (and probably tighter inventory methods), I would imagine the "spillover" was not as prevalent.

 

[Pete Whitstone]

Gary Lewis wrote

Just send me an email with your address and I'll get it out on Monday.  It came off Big Blue so I know it was working.

As for part numbers vs ID/engineering #'s, just because people call the number on the part a part number doesn't make it so.  If that were the case we could call black "white" and vice versa.

The function to send an email does not appear to be working for me. I fill everything out, verify I'm not a robot, and click the "send" button but nothing happens. I tried it several times and I don't think it ever did anything. The button is not grayed out or anything, just unresponsive. My email is the same as my user id, just with a period between first and last name, and the rest of it is @att.net. Shoot me an email and I'll send my snail mail address.

I agree with what you are saying about the part numbers, it's just that I haven't seen where the vendors sell parts based on the part number very much. Seems like everyone uses the engineering number to describe the part, thus making it the de facto part number. But like I said, I find the whole thing confusing and maybe the part numbers and engineering numbers are similar or the same or subsets of one another. Although that would make me wonder why there is a master cross-reference. I haven't been playing with 80's Fords long enough to know what's what.

Thanks!

[Gary Lewis]

I got all of your emails. Forgot to say the function works but doesn’t look like it does.

As for the part numbers, the uneducated sell based on the ID number, but Ford dealers and those who know what they are talking about usually use the part number or both. I was educated by one of the best, Bill/Numberdummy, and choose to use the numbers correctly.

While it may look like I’m just being difficult, the documentation on this site is from Ford’s MPC and it uses part numbers. So we need to use them or people cannot look the part up.

[85lebaront2]

Italian cars, Stellantis now owns most of them. I never dealt with too many of those, other than a few Fiats and one Alfa-Romeo Giulia TI my sister had (dad bought it for her) Strange beast, was a domestic Italian model probably brought back by some one in the military. A 1964, had a Solex 2 barrel and Magneti Marelli electrics (made me appreciate Lucas). I know we could not find points for it and when the dynamo quit I think dad put a spare Chrysler alternator on, or we may still have had the 25 amp Autolite from my 1964 Falcon around.

Strangest parts, (a) a lot of people thought it was one of the newer Renaults with the square body styles and (b) due to that an Opel Cadette Rallye tried to race me one night, he figured he had me hearing that twin cam buzz up in 4th, then I went into 5th with the column shift and walked away from him.

The others I had experience with a Ferrari Dino Sideways V8 that had bent valves in both heads (loads of fun leaning over to get the front head off and on). A Cireon SM I had to reassemble the engine on and a later Ferrari Testarosa opposed 12 that had jumped time on one bank and bent several valves. That was an R&R on the head and it was sent to a shop in San Diego that specialized in Ferraris. The shop owner was extremely helpful on tips to get the head off.

[Pete Whitstone]

Gary Lewis wrote

I got all of your emails. Forgot to say the function works but doesn’t look like it does.

As for the part numbers, the uneducated sell based on the ID number, but Ford dealers and those who know what they are talking about usually use the part number or both. I was educated by one of the best, Bill/Numberdummy, and choose to use the numbers correctly.

While it may look like I’m just being difficult, the documentation on this site is from Ford’s MPC and it uses part numbers. So we need to use them or people cannot look the part up.

Glad you got the emails. I was in doubt because on one of them I clicked the "send me a copy" option, and didn't get anything.

I don't think you're being difficult on the part numbers, I think you're trying to teach me something, and I appreciate it, so thank you. I didn't know the numbers in the documentation were actual part numbers, I thought they were the engineering numbers.

[Pete Whitstone]

I haven't messed with any of the high-end stuff. I like to modify cars too much, and modding a Lambo or a Ferrari tends to devalue it. I just own and work on Fiat and (post-merger) Lancia stuff. Their mid-engine cars are as close as you can get to a street-legal go-kart and are fun as heck to drive.

[Pete Whitstone]

So going down this mid-speed-cable route, I know I need the upper and lower speedo cables. I started digging through what I had, and earlier on before I learned about the long 1-piece cable with the VSS in the TC/Trans, I had ordered some speedo cables. Here are the Pioneer part numbers I have.



And here is what the ends look like (not sure which one is which Pioneer part number).





So of the 4 ends, I know the gold colored end with the white plastic thing goes on the speedo. I am assuming the other end of it, with the smaller threaded connection, will go on the VSS. But the other cable has me wondering. I assume both sides of the VSS will have the same thread size/pitch. So that leaves the big threaded end to go to the transfer case.

But what needs to plug into the TC needs to be shaped like this.



So either I'm missing a part, or I've got the wrong lower cable, I'm not sure which. Any advice? Thanks!

[FuzzFace2]

85lebaront2 wrote

Let me further confuse the issue, Darth is a 1986 F350 crew cab DRW model built in Aug 1986 in Oakville Ontario, Canada. My VSS for the speed control was in the cable just above the floor to firewall seam. Do not assume that changes like that were carved in stone. On the whole issue, look at a threaded speedometer cable attachment at your transfer case (go back into the 70s maybe) and a right angle 1:1 adapter so the cable can be routed up and over the transfer case.

Based on Gary's post above this one, those have the threaded connectors. I have seen some simple straight dual female end essentially tubes that a short piece of cable or even square key stock could be used to short couple a sensor or angle drive to another similar device.

Don't limit your search to just Ford, GM, Chrysler, independents and aftermarket can provide nice solutions.

I was going to say you might be able to find a 90* unit to fit the TC and the cable would then screw into it.
You can check with drive line venders that sell R&P gear sets and bearings.
I cant think of the people I bought my gears and install kit for my K10 blazer when I did a gear swap and the drag car gear, install kit and Detroit locker from
Think it was https://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/
When I did the Blazer I did not want to mess with the TC / cable gears so they sent an adapter that fixed it, little box that went in the trans and the cable screwed into it.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

I’m out and can’t look up the numbers now, but will when I get home. However I think you have the cable from the VSS to the speed. But the one to the tranny doesn’t look right. As you said, it needs to be like the other VSS.

[Pete Whitstone]

The only 90 degree units I could find were out of stock and $200. I'm sure I could find some cheaper if I dug around, but speedo cables are pretty cheap so hopefully I can find the right part number, or Gary or someone on here will be able to find it.

I did see this on eBay for pretty cheap - $15.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/261007138948?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A155D4sECrQt2y3RveynN-nw47&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=261007138948&targetid=1262375642056&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9026968&poi=&campaignid=15275224983&mkgroupid=131097072938&rlsatarget=pla-1262375642056&abcId=9300697&merchantid=113752567&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqvaNBhDLARIsAH1Pq52Go29n63aAbDbwy5a2vPGtd9XJlrAWXGWAMCdRh4gmpoVm1F24BX4aAip0EALw_wcB

It says it converts from GM 7/8 x 18tpi to the Ford gears. I measured the end on the cable and that's what it is. Interesting that the cable I have has a GM standard on it, because I bought it as a Ford part. Maybe Ford used that standard too, I don't know.

But the problem with something like this is that it is adding length where I might not have any room for it. Again, probably better to just find the right speedo cable, surely it's out there somewhere.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, as I think about it you are slightly into another never-never land.  You need a lower speedo cable for an E4OD, but the twain never met.  Saying it another way, one-piece cables were introduced in 1986 and the E4OD was introduced in 1989.  So no trucks were built with E4ODs and two-piece cables.

So you may have to have a cable made, which shouldn't be that hard.  But I think the first thing you'll have to do is to measure to see what length cable you need, and I think you might want to do that by using a cable you already have to snake down there and either add or subtract some inches.  Then you might get lucky and find a lower cable in the table below.

However, let me pontificate a moment.  John/Machspeed and I recently had a discussion about what information we ought to have on this site.  His take was that it should be Bullnose info only.  Mine was that we should include a wider range, in models and years, since we might want to pick a part from another model or year.

And this discussion is a perfect example of why I said that.  Our documentation for speedo cables excludes the E-Series vans.  But, in looking at the MPC I found that there is one cable that is 82" long and it is for 1980-85 vans.  And it seems to me that since the vans used the same VSS modules and same transmissions a van lower cable should work.  So I created the new table, below, just for this conversation.

And now back to our regularly-scheduled program - perhaps you can use one of these cables?