Gary's Trip To Ouray

[Machspeed]

Awesome report, Gary! Almost felt like I was there. Looks like you guys had a blast and the scenery is beautiful. Would have loved to see it all as you guys did.  

[ctubutis]

Looks like you had a good time, Gary!

This guy you met along the way (Mike) where is he from?

[Gary Lewis]

John - Thanks!  We did have a blast.

Chris - Yep, sure did.  And Mike is from Brazoria, TX.  That's pretty much dead center for where Nicholas came ashore.  Last I heard from Mike was that he had some limbs and fencing down but not too much damage.

And, speaking of damage, Big Blue didn't come out unscathed.  As said, we did hit the rocks a few times, and here's a few pics to prove it.  Nothing substantial, but this shows why you want lots of clearance.

First, the front diff:



And the rear diff:



Then the trailer hitch, which won't be a problem in the future with the new bumper as the trailer hitch will be in it.



As for the coolant leak, it isn't just the coolant reservoir.  Not sure where the problem is, but I'll have to find it.  Hopefully it is just a hose clamp.

[grumpin]

Fantastic! Makes me want to go there!

[Sac79]

Yikes! If BB got those marks on the trails, Eddy would definitely be worse for wear, or still hung up on a trail somewhere! I think the Unimog is a better idea...

Sure looks like a great trip though, when is your next one Gary?

[Gary Lewis]

That's one of the reasons I posted those pics, Rob.  I wanted you to see that ground clearance is a requirement, and when you air down to ease the impact on the truck on rough roads, you decrease the clearance even more.  But it is really needed.

As for the next trip, I don't know.  I'm hoping Janey and I can take Big Blue over into MO and/or AR and take in some of those trails, but we don't have any plans.

[Nothing Special]

Before I only had time to peruse your posts.  Now that I've had time to peruse them ("peruse" is a contranym, it means to look over something quickly and to study something in depth), I'm loving it even more!  Thanks for bringing us along!

A "few"  comments:

Gary Lewis wrote

....  We stopped on the second day of driving on Monarch pass to take a break and get some ice cream....  

But my brother spotted the cable car and wanted to go up, so we did:

Monarch Pass was a nice stop for us too, but we didn't ride up to the top.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  We went south of Ouray on HW 550, the Million Dollar Highway, and picked up Ophir pass.

We haven't done Ophir Pass yet.  We'll have to some time.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  And here's a shot of coming down Ophir pass.  Note that this is about the spot where we stopped last year to let a tour truck come down, and where I learned my passengers as well as those in the Jeep behind us were already freaking.

Those shelf roads really aren't for everyone!  It is good to figure everyone's tolerance and keep it fun.  Although shelf roads do seem to be an acquired taste.  Lesley really didn't like them when we started out and they don't bother her anymore.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  If I were to rate the trails on a 1 - 5 basis I'd probably rate Imogene as a 3+, with Ophir as a 2.  Imogene was steep at some points, but the hardest part was in finding places to meet people.  There are some parts of it that are tight.

Yeah, Imogene is a "good" place to learn how to drive shelf roads!  Not that it's necessarily for beginners, but after driving it you'll have a lot of experience!

And did you choose to do any playing around in the "playground" at the top?  I never have taken the time, but I recall an area where you can do a few harder climbs without having to commit to an entire harder trail.  If you didn't on this trip it might be a place to flex your legs a bit on a future trip without the difficulty level of The Wall.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  But it is what we did on that point at 13,000' that I thought was "hot".  We brewed two cups of Starbucks from a Keurig and then sat on the tailgate and drank it, looking our over a vast chunk of Colorado.  It is amazing what 3000 watts of AC can do.  

Gary Lewis wrote

....  The second day was a looooong day....  As shown below, we got off on Engineer Mountain Trail, or the Alpine Loop, depending on what map or signs you are reading.  (The sign on the highway says "Alpine Loop" at the moment.)

I don't know for sure where I heard the name "Engineer Mountain Road" (I think it was probably in an older guide book by an author named Larry Heck).  But I like it because it's not shared with anything else.  Yes it's the Alpine Loop, but so is Engineer Pass, Cinnamon Pass, several other trails in the area and highway 550.  So saying "Alpine Loop" doesn't narrow it down much (but if that's what the sign says it's good to keep in mind).  And I've usually heard "Mineral Point" refer just to the spur trail up where you get to the fork up to Engineer Pass or over to Animas Forks.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  But as Bob said, Engineer Mountain Trail is rough!

It can be a fun trail, but as I've said before, it's not a trail I'd suggest for anyone's first day of trail riding.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Things were going well until I slid off the side.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!  I'm glad your "adventure" just turned out to be a learning experience rather than an expensive (or worse) experience.  It does point out that trail driving does require some different skills than driving on the road.  So it's good to wade in rather slowly instead of just jumping right in the deep end.

Gary Lewis wrote

....   But that was fortuitous in a way because it caused us to meet Mike....  So Mike brought his 4Runner around and positioned it above us and ran his winch line to the rear of the step bar on Big Blue....  After that, still wondering if he should go on, Mike asked if he could tag along.  (And he did so for three days.)

There are a lot of good reasons people say you shouldn't go 'wheeling alone (with just one vehicle).  Having a second vehicle (or more) opens up a lot more options.  Plus it's often more fun to share good experiences.  I've generally not had the opportunity to go with other vehicles, but I do like doing it when I get the opportunity, and I'd definitely suggest it over going alone.

That said, I'd still suggest going alone (carefully!) rather than staying at home!

Gary Lewis wrote

....  So we headed up the mountain and stopped at Mineral Point.  (That road was rough and later Mike said he didn't want to go back if it meant going to Mineral Point.)

Do you know what part Mike was referring to?  Was it most of Engineer Mountain Road?  Or just the Mineral Point spur?  I can certainly believe someone not wanting to beat themselves over Engineer Mountain Road too often (although I think I might have done it 4 times in the 5 days the last time I was there).  

But I don't think I've ever done the entire Mineral Point spur.  Looking at your map, I think the "main" Engineer Mountain Road route follows the trail that you do not have highlighted near the Mineral Point spur.  I've done that most often, and once I did the "cutoff" that you highlighted.  But I don't think I ever did the dead-end spur you highlighted.

Gary Lewis wrote

....    Next up was Engineer Pass, and here's my brother, the engineer, pointing at the sign.

That's an obligatory picture for me as well!

Gary Lewis wrote

....  And here's the sign outside the house that we toured:

When we were there in 2000 we walked around in that house.  It was in ROUGH shape!  No glass in the windows, holes in the floor.  We didn't stop in 2018, but it almost looked move-in-ready with the windows replaced and the exterior looking VERY weathered, but solid.  I'm glad they're maintaining the history.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  From there we headed through California Gulch and over California Pass:

What did you think of California Pass?  I remember some pretty tight, steep switchbacks as you get up that.  Nothing TOO terrible, but certainly requiring dropping a gear.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  From there to the junction with Poughkeepsie Gulch and then down the gulch past Lake Como and to The Wall.  No, we didn't try to tackle The Wall.  First, there was a serious ~2' step that we'd have to get over in order to even get to The Wall.  Then at The Wall the less difficult side on the left was cabled off.  So we decided to give it a pass.

I'm glad you at least got to see it and make your own call.  That trail was cabled off when we were there in 2018 as well (although we did take it in 2000).

And where was the 2' step?  Was that something above The Wall you'd need to do to get down to it?  Or something at the bottom before going up it?  It does seem that The Wall changes quite a bit over a relatively short period of time.  I know it was a LOT different in 2018 than it was in 2000, but I've heard others say "it was a lot harder (or easier) the last time I was here a year or two ago"

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Doing it that way the road is very easy up to just south of Animas Forks.  In fact, we didn't even air down until we were half way between Silverton and Animas Forks.  But we did see many, many people who apparently didn't have on-board air as they didn't air down at all, and their vehicles and their heads were being pounded unmercifully.  However, the drop to 15 psi smoothed out Big Blue very nicely.

Good to get more recent data on the road from Silverton to Animas Forks.  I remember it being a pretty easy drive in 2000, but we didn't take it in 2018.

And yes, airing down makes all the difference in the world!  If you don't have on-board air, at least drop to something like 20 and then take it easy when you get back to the highway.  But if you do much of this kind of thing you'll probably get some sort of on-board air setup.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  On the east side of Cinnamon Pass the road is much easier.  This is the Alpine Loop and is billed as something that almost anyone can do.  But bear in mind that the really rough section that we did on Day Two is also part of the Alpine Loop, as is the section where we slid off the side.  So there are easy sections and rough sections.  This is one of the easy ones....  And the road got a bit steeper, narrower, and rougher.  But still not bad.  It was an easy but fun climb.

That's one of the great things about the trails out there.  There's something for everyone!

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Imogene was closed for a foot race.  

There's a 100 mile ultramarathon out there that I've thought a lot about trying (the "Hardrock Hundred").  In fact, in 2019 I started training for a 100 mile race, knowing that I wasn't going to go through the entire training program, but getting far enough in to know if I should actually enter one or quit thinking about it.  I quit thinking about it.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Once we'd seen Porphyry Gulch we turned around and headed back down the mountain for the Black Bear trail.  Mike had convinced us that Big Blue would be a bear to get around the first of the switchbacks, so Rick and I agreed we'd just go to the pass itself and not any farther.

I think I'm glad he convinced you.  I never want to tell anyone "no you can't do that" but Black Bear in a full size truck is a big deal.  It can be done, but it's sure not for everyone.  I've said this before, but I'd really recommend figuring out some way to see it before committing to it in a full size truck.  Maybe in a rented Jeep?  Or maybe better yet, get a ride in one of the tour vehicles?

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Here's a view of the trail off Black Bear Pass down to The Steps.  Note that there is no white 4Runner in any of the pics as Mike stayed down below at the gate to the pass trail.  He told me later he just knew we were going to tackle The Steps and he didn't want to be around when we did.  

How far down that trail did you go?  Or did you stop at the top of the pass?



So it sounds like you had fun.  Do you think you'll ever go back to Ouray again?  Or is it a "been there, done that" thing and time for something else next time?

[Gary Lewis]

Interesting!  I didn't know that "peruse" is a contranym.  I've only used it in the  "in depth" meaning, but now that I look at the definition I see that it is both.  

I've been over Monarch bunches of times, but have never even considered riding the cable car to the top.  Not sure I've even thought about it.  But Rick wanted to so we did, and it kind of set the tone for the trip - we were there to have fun.

As for Ophir, I've done it three times now, with two in the last year.  Thirty years ago the shale moved on us and freaked Janey and our daughter Holly, but Bret and I loved it.  Now the shale doesn't really move much so it is just a wide road w/o a guard rail - much like the vast majority of the Million Dollar Highway.

On Imogene we learned about switchbacks and tight turns.  But we didn't try the "playground" at the top.  The place was pretty busy and we were looking forward to the cup of coffee.  Maybe next time, and to answer the later question, I hope there will be a next time.  In fact, the grandtwins have read through this thread and I got a text from my daughter just now saying "The kids seemed really excited about off-roading with you, Dad."  So Janey and I are planning to take them places around here, and one day I hope to take them back to Ouray.

Yes, I think the term "Alpine Loop" is misleading given its length and widely varying trail conditions.  As for Mineral Point, we were very confused about where it is or where we were.  But the sign said "Mineral Point" in spite of us not having taken a spur.  We were off of the trail I'd laid out on Gaia, but we were on the trail Mike had laid out on Gaia.  

But I didn't think the trail at Mineral Point was that bad.  So I think Mike was referring to that section of Engineer Mountain Trail closer to 550, as shown in my pic.  And I don't blame him for not wanting to go back.  We made it fine, but it was so rough that I'd rather go another way.  (I've sent Mike a link to this thread so he may read this and text me a comment.)

And speaking of Mike, finding him was such a blessing in many ways.  First, in getting us unstuck.  Second, in finding a good cafe for breakfast in Ouray.  But more importantly, to have made such a good friend.  Having him along made it more enjoyable as well as safer since we had the radios and could usually reach each other if needed.

But I wouldn't hesitate to run the trails around Ouray alone.  There was enough traffic that someone would help you if you had a problem, although you might have to wait a bit in some places.  For instance, there was no one at The Wall or on the south end of Poughkeepsie Gulch.  Nada.  So if you broke down there you would have to hike up to the trail between California and Hurricane passes.  And that is a HIKE!

As for the 2' step, it was in the trail about 100 yards south of The Wall.  We'd made some really tight turns and steep climbs to get there.  In fact, at one point Mike's RF tire was 1' off the ground and spinning in the air so he had to engage his front locker to pull through.  (Oddly enough, Big Blue came through there w/o locking the front diff.)  But when we found that step we turned them off and walked up.  We knew we didn't want to tackle that as it would be really hard on the equipment - if even possible.

The house in Animas Forks has been "improved" quite a bit on the first floor.  Glass back in the windows and holes in the floor fixed.  But there are rodents living on the 2nd floor as there is evidence everywhere.  So it looks good from the outside, but stinks on the inside.

As for Black Bear, we didn't go farther than the pass.  But the gentleman that was there with his drone told me today that he's going to edit his video just for me so I can post it here, and maybe we'll see more of the trail down to The Steps.  His note said "Wow, that was some descent. I can see why they call it the most dangerous pass in Colorado."  I'm happy we didn't try it.  Maybe another time in another vehicle or on one of the tours.  And I do plan to go back.

Last, a 100 mile ultramarathon?!?!  Wow!  That would be awesome!  I can see that the training would be beneficial.  But that is far, FAR beyond anything I would ever have considered.  

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  I hope there will be a next time.  In fact, the grandtwins have read through this thread and I got a text from my daughter just now saying "The kids seemed really excited about off-roading with you, Dad."  So Janey and I are planning to take them places around here, and one day I hope to take them back to Ouray.

Good!  Especially as I get older, sharing things like that with my kids is often the best part.  I don't have grandkids yet and I'm not trying to rush anything (both of my sons got married in the last year, one of them last Sunday!).  But I certainly expect that sharing that with grandkids will be great too.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  So I think Mike was referring to that section of Engineer Mountain Trail closer to 550, as shown in my pic.  And I don't blame him for not wanting to go back.  We made it fine, but it was so rough that I'd rather go another way.

Yeah, I certainly can see that.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  there was no one at The Wall...

That surprises me!  Every time I've been there there's been at least a few people.  It's always been a pretty good place to spectate, even if you weren't going to drive it.  But then again, I've only been there in July.  Maybe by September either there are fewer people, or maybe more of the people that are there are more Alpine Loop people that Poughkeepsie Gulch people.

Gary Lewis wrote

....  As for the 2' step, it was in the trail about 100 yards south of The Wall.  We'd made some really tight turns and steep climbs to get there.  In fact, at one point Mike's RF tire was 1' off the ground and spinning in the air so he had to engage his front locker to pull through.  (Oddly enough, Big Blue came through there w/o locking the front diff.)  But when we found that step we turned them off and walked up.  We knew we didn't want to tackle that as it would be really hard on the equipment - if even possible.

I'm not sure I know where you are talking about.  South of The Wall is farther up Poughkeepsie Gulch in elevation (closer to Lake Como and the passes).  I know there's one "playground" a little up hill from The Wall that freaked me out a bit the first time I was on Poughkeepsie (driving down it in 2000).  But I don't recall any big steps on it.  But as I noted above, the trail does change over time, so maybe something eroded out.

And by the way, did you take a look at the upper (south) end of the bypass?  I'm curious what you might think about the switchbacks at the top for a full-size truck.  (As I noted in earlier threads, the bypass isn't just a dirt road.)

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Last, a 100 mile ultramarathon?!?!  Wow!  That would be awesome!  I can see that the training would be beneficial.  But that is far, FAR beyond anything I would ever have considered.  

I'm a distance runner, but typically I run about 3 miles, and only rarely over 5.  But I did run a marathon once, and when I heard of the Hardrock Hundred I was really intrigued.  That seems like something I'd really like to have done (although maybe not necessarily like to do!).  So I'd been thinking about it for a long time.  I finally decided it was time to stop thinking about it and either do it or give it up.  So I tested myself in 2019.  I'm convinced that physically and mentally I could have completed the training program and run a 100 mile race.  But I was already up to 8 hours / week running, and I just couldn't make that much time without taking it from places I didn't want to take it.  And finishing the program would've brought it to 16 hours / week.  Plus the actual race I was thinking about entering (the Leadville Trails 100) has check points at certain mileposts, and if you don't make it by a certain time you aren't allowed to continue.  Looking at the pace I could maintain and trying to realistically judge how much the altitude and hills would slow me down, I thought it was pretty likely that I'd time out at the 40 mile point.  For those two reasons I went back to 3 - 5 miles.

[Gary Lewis]

First, before I forget again, thanks for all of the advice on getting ready as well as where to go.  That was a huge help, and my brother and I talked about that very thing.  THANKS!

As for doing things with family, that's the best.  I'm really looking forward getting my grandkids involved, although I'm not quite sure how that is going to work out since their parents are going to be the squeamish ones.  So we will see what they allow.  And hopefully we can get the whole family together to do some offroading.  We'll just rent some Jeeps or side-by-sides.

As for The Wall being vacant, we were surprised as there were people about elsewhere.  But, as I think about it the mix of people was probably different in Sept than in July.  We had about 50% side-by-sides, most of which appeared to have been rented, 25% Jeeps, half of which were rented, and then the rest made up of people on bicycles, motorcycles, and other vehicles.  So I'm guessing that at least half of the vehicles were rented and those people weren't ready to attempt something like The Wall.

Having said that, we parked next to this bad boy many nights at the hotel, but never saw it on the trails.  However, they told us they were going to do Black Bear & Imogene the day we did Ophir & Imogene.  So surely they were testing the thing out as they trailered it there.



As for the step and the bypass, I think this is accurate.  We didn't go down the bypass, but the switchbacks on the part we did go on were tight and steep, although short.  As said, Mike had to engage his front locker at one point.  We didn't, although we may have taken a different line.



Considering the running, I'm not a runner.  Did it in track in HS, but didn't enjoy it at all.  So my hat is off to you in being able to do 3 - 5 miles.  And there's no way I'd give up that much time in training.  But I'm in awe of those who do.

[Gary Lewis]

A few last things about the trip.  First, the truck is extremely capable.  It will go any place I want to go.  However, we did hit the diff's a few times, as previously shown, so it wouldn't hurt to have another inch of ground clearance by going to 35" tires.

However I fear that doing so would make 2nd gear too tall to use easily from a stop.  I already have to rev the engine a bit and slip the clutch, so I am afraid the taller tires would make 2nd gear too tall.  Had I known this would be an issue I'd have re-geared the rear from 3.55 to 4.10 instead of re-gearing the front from 4.10 to 3.55.

And, speaking of tires, the rocks took nibbles off the outside edges of the tread, as shown below.  Mike said he noticed it as we aired up on the 3rd day, and his tires didn't have any nibbles off them in spite of us having gone the same places.  But his tires were brand new when he left on the trip and Big Blue's tires were put on 10 years ago in 2012.  So I'm guessing that the rubber has hardened and that's the reason the edges were nibbled off.

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

A few last things about the trip.  First, the truck is extremely capable.  It will go any place I want to go.  However, we did hit the diff's a few times, as previously shown, so it wouldn't hurt to have another inch of ground clearance by going to 35" tires.

However I fear that doing so would make 2nd gear too tall to use easily from a stop.  I already have to rev the engine a bit and slip the clutch, so I am afraid the taller tires would make 2nd gear too tall.  Had I known this would be an issue I'd have re-geared the rear from 3.55 to 4.10 instead of re-gearing the front from 4.10 to 3.55.

And, speaking of tires, the rocks took nibbles off the outside edges of the tread, as shown below.  Mike said he noticed it as we aired up on the 3rd day, and his tires didn't have any nibbles off them in spite of us having gone the same places.  But his tires were brand new when he left on the trip and Big Blue's tires were put on 10 years ago in 2012.  So I'm guessing that the rubber has hardened and that's the reason the edges were nibbled off.

You can never have too much ground clearance in the rocks.  However you can be too top heavy, or too high to get into easily enough.  I'm running 33s as well, but with smaller diffs (Ford 9" and Dana 44 rather than Sterling 10.25" and Dana 60), so I likely have a little more clearance under my diffs.  But you just have to decide what compromise you want to strike.  Fortunately, with more experience it's possible to hit your diffs less (by knowing where they are and what they'll clear, and by hitting the biggest rocks with the tires to lift the diffs up over the other rocks).  And fortunately diffs are awfully tough!  (I still hit mine a fair amount.)

The tires on my Bronco (BFG A/T KO) are close to the same age as yours, and they're pretty chunked out too, but they've been chunked out for a long time, so it's not just age.  There might be some tires that are less susceptible to it than others, but to a large extent it's just something you need to expect in rocks.  One downside is that it can throw off the tire balance.  I'm planning on putting tire balance beads in my Bronco's off-road tires (I plan to get smaller tires for daily driving that I won't beat up on).  We'll see if that's better or worse.  But I know I have quite a bit of vibration with my current tires, and they were smooth when they were new.

[Gary Lewis]

I think for what I'm doing the 33's will work out pretty well, and we'll just have to learn to put the tires on the rocks.

As for the chunking, I checked the tires over and they are pretty evenly chunked.  Same inside and outside, same right side to left side, front/rear.  So the early theory we had where the right side tires ran close to the rock walls is wrong.  Must have been the shale or loose rock.

These tires were made in May of 2012, so are relatively old - as tires go.  Wondered what I'd replace them with so called Tire Rack and talked to Barney.  He seemed to think I have the right tire for what I do, which is 90% on-road and 10% off.  Cooper's Evolution M/T has Trail Grip Sidewalls meant to prevent the chunking, but it will be "a bit" louder.  And Cooper's STT Pro's will be louder as well.

So, when I have to replace them I'll probably just put another set of Discoverer S/T Maxx tires on.  We were impressed with the traction as well as the fact that they stayed on the bead.  When we had the winch on the step bar we pulled it too much initially and had the tire rolled on the wheel a whole bunch, but it stayed.

In fact, we bent the step bar's bracket with that pull, as you can see on the left, below.  I can bend it back, but as shown on the right I'm thinking of including a piece of angle that will be held by the bolt you can see that goes into the step bar, and then retained by a long bolt down through the top.  There's already a bolt up there, but by running it through the bracket the step bar will be much more solid.

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  We were impressed with the traction as well as the fact that they stayed on the bead.  When we had the winch on the step bar we pulled it too much initially and had the tire rolled on the wheel a whole bunch, but it stayed....

Was it rolled this much?


This is a zoomed in view of this picture:


This was somewhere between 12 - 15 psi in my (pretty new at the time) current tires: 33/10.50-15C BFG AT KO on (I think) 7" wide rims.  I had no ide how much I had rolled that tire until I saw the picture.  (And don't do as my son and I are doing, holding onto the roll cage when we were afraid we were going over )

[swampedout]

Looks like a great trip, Gary. I havent done any trails up there but I commend you for taking such a fine vehicle up there and bringing it back home with barely a scratch on it.

I think your truck could do 35s without being too top heavy. And it looks like theyd fit in the fender. But if the only damage was skidding the diffs, it might make more sense to plate those before stepping up in tire size.

I like the idea of a forward facing camera. Even in my smaller trucks, when you are coming up a hill, you have almost no idea whats on the downhill side. It can be a little nerve racking on unfamiliar roads. The old school workaround for rockcrawling is to make half doors so you can lean out the truck and see what your about to hit. Not that Im recommending you desecrate Big Blue with non-factory doors. One of my favorite trail rigs has a 360 degree camera system. Ill try to dig up the links for that build.

And I think Ive mentioned I have those same Coopers and mine are chewed up on the edges from rocks as well. But theyve had a hard long life and are still standing up well.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, have you considered that Big Blue is a LOT heavier and a lot torqueyr (sp?) than a little 4Runner???

High center of gravity may be a small consideration, but going to 35's would only put it one inch higher by whatever your overall track width is.
Even if your tire rolled like Bob's, it wouldn't amount to a degree or two.

More fun in the shop!
You can mod the nerf step while you're making the back gate and bumper.  

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I wish I'd taken a pic of the tire, but it was easily rolled as far as yours, and probably farther.  We had too much side pull on and the tire didn't want to come.  Basically, as soon as I saw that tire I hit the switch on my winch and rolled it forward.

Sam - Big Blue is a fine vehicle, but he was built to do that.  He has scrapes and dents, but he is solid.  My brother didn't miss a day singing Big Blue's praises.  And last night when I sent his son a link to this thread he said "He (his father) had nothing but good things to say about the truck and the trip."  That's high praise to me.

But I'd forgotten that you are running the same Coopers.  Good to hear that despite the edges getting chewed up they are still working well.  We had absolutely no complaints with the tires, and the traction was awesome.  Made me wonder why I have the OX locker in front.  

On the camera, I'm looking at some that use replace the rear view mirror, but have yet to find one that has a second input that I can use for the front camera.  But if you have a better idea I'd like to see it.

As for the diff's, I was wondering about adding skid plates.  Something with a bit of angle in front to keep from hitting straight on.  I wonder what is available for a D60 and a Sterling?

Jim - Yes, I have considered that BB is a lot heavier, and torquier than a 4Runner.  We had the two vehicles side by side several times while airing up, using BB's air system instead of Mike's compressor with alligator clips, and even the tires are much bigger than Mike's.  In fact, he said so himself.  And Rick was really impressed with the torque - we went up Black Bear Pass in 3rd gear!  While I know we were down on power from sea level, it pulled like a tractor.  And of course, that didn't help the tires as we used that power.  In fact, Rick said it corners better with a bit of power on.  

And yes, we'd only gain 1" with 35's, and given the reduction in effective gear ratio I really don't want to go there.  I think for the offroading I do I can learn to protect the diff's.

And yes, there will be more fun in the shop.  I can easily mod the step bar brackets to make them much more secure.  

[Gary Lewis]

FYI, I'll still be discussing the trip in this thread, but I'm taking discussions of repair or progress on Big Blue to Big Blue's Transformation thread, where I just posted about the coolant leak.  I think I found it.

And, speaking of the trip, I talked to my brother this morning.  Among other things, we are in complete agreement that EFI is the way to go for Big Blue.  There are several reasons for that, inc:

Stability: There were several times when the idle was low enough it was hard to keep the engine running, and it still did it after blowing out the carb.  And an unstable idle is no fun when you are trying to ease out on the clutch and make a many-point turn in a tight spot.

Power Steering: The Saginaw pump works wonderfully - when it is spinning at a reasonable speed. But at low idle speeds and with 15 psi in the tires there were many times that it was a bear to turn the wheel - maybe partially because we were on the brakes at the same time and using the hydroboost. So having an idle speed that is the same each time would be a big boon.

No Dieseling: Big Blue has a propensity to continue running when you turn the key off if he's running rich and has a high idle.  So the unstable idle can be an issue as you want the idle high enough, but not too high.  But hopefully EFI will not only solve the idle problem, it should kill the engine when you turn the key off as it'll quit injecting fuel.

MPG: We got the trail MPG to maybe ~4 but we were still running quite rich and know it can be better, which EFI will give due to adjusting for altitude, temp, etc.  And the highway MPG might go up a bit as well 'cause we were also running rich there.  And at 200+ gallons at ~$4/gallon we could save a chunk of change with just a little change in MPG.  (Note that this is more an issue with a truck like Big Blue which is driven to/on/from the trails as opposed to one that might be towed or trailered.)

[Gary Lewis]

Just to round out this report, here's a video from a guy we met on top of Black Bear. In the video he catches our new-found friend Mike in his 4Runner @ 2:56, and catches us in Big Blue at 3:28. But then we, and BB, are shown while at the top and in the drone footage several times.

So this lets us see the tight turn with the rock on the first switchback where Mike said "You won't make it." But, there's another LWB truck or two on the trail, so presumably they did.

Anyway, enjoy!

[ctubutis]

I'll take the highway to get there.