Failed DEQ again

[ArdWrknTrk]

Your signature shows on my phone.

The Air Injection Reaction system is crucial to emissions whether carb or EFI.
Added oxygen helps ignite unburnt fuel (CO) in the exhaust manifolds and to get the catalytic converter up to temperature.

[1986F150Six]

http://www.rockauto.com/info/48/CX1378-FRO__ra_p.jpg

Motorcraft CX1378 @ Rock Auto

It would be very wise to replace all rubber and plastic vacuum hoses. It is not uncommon for these trucks to be found with at least some or all original tubing [31-37 years old!]. The hoses crack or come loose or people try to bypass things and put screws in the cut tubing. Look for unused vacuum ports on the intake manifold and firewall on the passenger side. These ports should have a rubber cap, which can crack or fall off.Without the system being complete [like designed], the computer cannot make the correct adjustments. If any part of the emission system is not complete, most times, the computer will go into what is referred as the "safe" mode. When this happens, the ignition timing is locked @ static [normally 10 degrees BTDC] and the carburetor is set to its richest setting.

On the intake manifold, there is a vacuum "tree" which has about 6 (?) ports. There is one unused one hidden at the very back, near the engine block, pointing toward the cab. It is very hard to see due to all the vacuum lines running in that area. It is nearest the exhaust manifold, so is exposed to a lot of heat. It [rubber cap] dries out and cracks and creates a vacuum leak. It is difficult to find using typical brake cleaner spraying for leaks and you cannot hear the leak due to the proximity to the exhaust. Is your idle speed higher than desired?

[kristopherdb]

I think it idles well. Now with a proper exhaust at least I can hear the motor lol.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Just use a piece of heater hose for the Thermactor line.

If it has any tight or unusual bends you can probably find a molded hose for some other application that will fit with a little trimming.

Bring the old one in to the store with you.
... It isn't doing anything for your truck right now anyhow.

[kristopherdb]

would it be worthwhile to fix and run it back down the hill to test? Could this be doubling my actual count?  In other words could a large gaping hole in this hose cause me to fail and the results posted above?

[PetesPonies]

Anything that is not working in the system could cause your issues.That is what a "system" is all about. Understand . . you have a carburetor, but the power system of the carburetor is controlled by the ECU. Really, its a lousy system. But . . I digress. A carburetor have 6 systems that are used to make your engine run under different situations. A carb can't do each of those things perfectly, but tries to be close with all of them. That is where EFI is immensely better. When you accelerate you cause the carb to react and engage it's power system. That is done by one of two ways. carbs with feedback systems use a rod that is lifted out of the jet. When the rod lifts, more fuel can leave. By using a throttle position sensor, a temp sensor, an oxygen sensor and such, your ECU tries to determine how much extra fuel you need. Then a solenoid at the carb lifts the metering rod to allow more to enter the air stream. There's more going on, but this is the short version. Of all the sensors involved, the oxygen sensor is the one that needs to be replaced often as it degrades from use. The other sensors will work or not work, the O2 will degrade. That means it can give an inaccurate signal. Most people do not realize this, but an O2 sensor should be considered art of a tune up and replaced often. You should fix al your vacuum lines and hoses for sure, then get a new O2 sensor, it will only help and will never hurt.

[kristopherdb]

Ok I ran home at lunch to see what I would need to make this "simple repair" UGH!!! The air valve checker thing is junk twisted right off the pipe itself and is hollow except for a piece that looks like it was a spring on a diaphragm maybe at one time?

I have no knowledge of a way to get the bolt out of the carb itself, it is a very tight spot and Im not sure which tool to use, a crescent wrench did nothing and had maybe a 1/16th of play to turn if I could have budged it at all which I could not :-(. But dont worry I made sure its broke real good so I have to fix it ugh again!

And finally while looking for your missing vacuum lines I noticed a very large line that is ripped or torn and hanging there, I don't see where it could or would have went anywhere close. And a metal port looking thing that comes up from around the manifold area I'm on the left side of the motor and see what I think is the black vacuum line connected to what looks like another check valve down there.

big metal one up close

thanks for putting up with my question after question I really am trying to learn

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok, so the A.I.R. check valve is just that. A spring loaded disc that only allows the pump to push air into the exhaust but does not allow exhaust to come out.

The big metal outlet allows a flexible aluminum tube to connect the air cleaner.
This preheats incoming air in cold weather, eliminating carb icing and warming up the engine quicker.

If you have a large line missing it may be the red rubber line to the choke warmer.

[kristopherdb]

Where does the other end of the aluminum tube go? Any idea what the rubber line is supposed to attach too?

[PetesPonies]

The air tube directs the air from the pump to the catalytic converter. It passes by the check valve, then down to the converter.

[Gary Lewis]

You can see the other tube on page Fuel Systems/Air Cleaners/Air Cleaner Illustrations.  Full stop shopping.  

[kristopherdb]

9652 found it and see where it goes. How important is the one that goes back to the cat? I’m not sure there is a place for a sensor as I just had it put on last week. 

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From: Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:34:41 PM
To: kristopherdb
Subject: Re: Failed DEQ again

 

You can see the other tube on page Fuel Systems/Air Cleaners/Air Cleaner Illustrations.  Full stop shopping.  

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[Gary Lewis]

I don't know what you mean by "the one that goes back to the cat".  But, if you mean the hose from the AIR pump to the cat, it is crucial.  Absolutely critical.  The cat cannot burn the excess fuel w/o oxygen, and the pump and the hose give it the oxygen.  No oxygen and the cat won't work and you won't pass emissions.

The hose from the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner isn't going to make any difference in today's weather on the emissions test.  It will make a difference in how the truck runs under conditions when it is cool out and there's moisture in the air as the carb may ice up.  And, it helps keep the inlet air temp to the carb relatively stable, which is good for air/fuel ratio stability.  Go read the page Fuel Systems/Air Cleaners.  But not having that tube probably won't cause you to fail the actual emissions test.

[kristopherdb]

I meant the air pump. But would have probably asked about the second soon enough. Thanks again for this forum!

_____________________________
From: Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: Failed DEQ again
To: kristopherdb <[hidden email]>


I don't know what you mean by "the one that goes back to the cat".  But, if you mean the hose from the AIR pump to the cat, it is crucial.  Absolutely critical.  The cat cannot burn the excess fuel w/o oxygen, and the pump and the hose give it the oxygen.  No oxygen and the cat won't work and you won't pass emissions.

The hose from the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner isn't going to make any difference in today's weather on the emissions test.  It will make a difference in how the truck runs under conditions when it is cool out and there's moisture in the air as the carb may ice up.  And, it helps keep the inlet air temp to the carb relatively stable, which is good for air/fuel ratio stability.  Go read the page Fuel Systems/Air Cleaners.  But not having that tube probably won't cause you to fail the actual emissions test.

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[PetesPonies]

The cat creates a second place for burning to take place, or at least a chemical reaction comparable to burning. . . .  burning that didn't happen in the cylinder. If all fuel burned in the cylinder, there would be no emissions. Sound simple doesn't it:) The material in the cat, along with the air being pumped in, created the reaction to cleanup the exhaust. Interesting that as FI improved . .this extra air needed in the cat was nullified.

[Gary Lewis]

Actually, thanks to you for being here.  We are trying to develop, as the headline says, THE WORLD'S BEST DOCUMENTATION WEBSITE AND DISCUSSION COMMUNITY FOR 1980-1986 FORD TRUCKS.  We have quite a bit of documentation, and more is being added frequently, so there's probably no where on the web that has as much as we do.

But we need users.  People who need help with their trucks and get it.  That draws others in when they see the results.  So, thanks for being here.  

[kristopherdb]

Ok just be make sure I understand clearly. I must get the left most circled and unconnected hose tied into the cat, by the muffler shop. I’m not even sure the cat I just had them install last week had a bung or not. But if I want to pass emissions I need to do it? 

_____________________________
From: PetesPonies [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Failed DEQ again
To: kristopherdb <[hidden email]>


The cat creates a second place for burning to take place, or at least a chemical reaction comparable to burning. . . .  burning that didn't happen in the cylinder. If all fuel burned in the cylinder, there would be no emissions. Sound simple doesn't it:) The material in the cat, along with the air being pumped in, created the reaction to cleanup the exhaust. Interesting that as FI improved . .this extra air needed in the cat was nullified.

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[ArdWrknTrk]

Newer catalytic converters have more complex catalysts than early ones but that does mean they have to operate in a very narrow range of fuel ratios, and a carburetor is going to be near impossible to meet that.

The air can be plumbed in near the entrance of the cat. It doesn't have to go directly into the case.

[JimsRebel]

Does your current exhaust system look like this? Do you see the pile inlet where the air pump connects? The air pump needs to be blowing air into the pipe all the time.
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/  PART NUMBER: 15741
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/epa-converters/e-catalog-lookup/15741

[kristopherdb]

This is the item I purchased and had the muffler shop install. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0085UDUJK/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

_____________________________
From: JimsRebel [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2017 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Failed DEQ again
To: kristopherdb <[hidden email]>


Does your current exhaust system look like this? Do you see the pile inlet where the air pump connects? The air pump needs to be blowing air into the pipe all the time.
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/  PART NUMBER: 15741
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/epa-converters/e-catalog-lookup/15741

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NAML