Evaluating a new purchase

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Evaluating a new purchase

wasteland_jack
Hi, folks! I would appreciate if you would take a look at this truck and tell me what I should be cautious of when going to look at it.

I don't care about what the body looks like, but I want the important bits to be in good shape. This seller claims that everything mechanical on this truck is in good condition. He said that he bought it for a father/son project, but that his son is no longer interested and the project is falling on him. I have to drive 2 hours to see it, so I want to have a good idea of what might disqualify this truck before I set out.

He claims that the exhaust is new from the manifold back. New carb, new transmission, and "many other new parts" that I haven't seen yet. They installed these themselves.

Thank you in advance!

https://corvallis.craigslist.org/cto/d/albany-1983-ford-f150-4x4/7744389414.html
I have an '83 F150, 6 cyl, auto, 4x4, 8' bed. My wife named the truck "Jolene" because I spend too much time with it.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

ArdWrknTrk
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Evaluate the frame, especially between the side tank and channel.
Also check the brake & fuel lines hidden in there.
Check where the end of that brake line turns down to meet the rear axle brake hose/splitter. (They like to rot in that corner of the cross member)
Check the rear spring hangers, from the top, into the pocket formed by the shackle mount.
Check the frame mounts, body bushings and especially the 'horns' that the radiator support mounts too.
Look on top of the gas tanks (use a mirror or endoscope if you need to)
Gas tanks rot inside from water bottom, but they rust out on top -especially the sender bungs- from mud and grime holding water and road salt up where it's hidden.
If you can bring a floor jack raise each wheel and feel for loose bearings and tie rods/ball joints in the front.
Check for grumbling bearings and dragging brakes in the back.

Those are the things I'd look at if I were buying one of these trucks, that I had no history of.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

Gary Lewis
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Jim's suggestions are good ones, but here are some observations just looking at the pics:

The grille is black, which doesn't look to be right as the truck doesn't have the other black things to go with it.  So it might be a nice replacement.  Or, it could be a spray painted piece of junk.

The mirrors are serious.  You might not like them, but someone might.

The engine has an HEI ignition system, and if done correctly that could be good.  But few people understand the need to put a very large wire to the HEI, so I'm doubting it was done properly as the air cleaner yells "kid" to me.

Over all the body doesn't look bad.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

Bronco638
Just a few observations in addition to Jim's & Gary's:

The grey carpet is not original. I know rust isn't an issue but I'd take a good look under the carpet to see what the floors look like.

The engine appears to have some work done to it. I see a new upper radiator hose but the heater hoses look old(er). Also, I believe this is a truck that had/has AC (based on the heater box protruding into the engine bay) but I don't see a compressor on the engine. If that's important, check for the condenser coil (in front of the radiator) and ask about the compressor.

The carburetor appears to be new and maybe not correct. I also wonder where the PVC hose is plumbed. It should run to the base of the carb (and may) but it disappears between the engine block and the firewall. You might want to check that.

It does have an HEI distributor, ask about it being wired correctly (as Gary mentioned). If you get a quizzical look, be prepared to address that if you're going to drive it home. I also see what appears to be a vacuum advance hose (black hose that runs in front of the carb, over the valve cover, over the top of the dist. cap and then to the vacuum advance pot). I don't think the HEI dist. requires that (and makes me wonder about the dist. wiring and other stuff the current owner may have done). Otherwise, the engine compartment looks pretty clean.
Dave A
'80 F-150
'11 Ranger
'17 Expedition
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

mat in tn
overall, not a bad truck.
4wd, manual, 4.9 . all other suggestions are good ones. rust inspection is the biggest one for me. the odd door could have been due to rust or impact. look at the cab in that area. dripping paint in the door jamb could mean some paint cover up or even Bondo over rust. as to the hei. I don't mind them and have used a few. the dist does have a vacuum advance so I am more concerned with what it is connected to as to whether its connected or not. yes, it needs more amperage than the oem to get full advantage of the better coil. look at the tires well. they can tell a lot about front end cond. also tires carry a lot of weight "financially" as they may cost 40 percent of the asking price. an important place to look for hidden rust is the firewall. pull the carpet/firewall back a little to look for rust or water intrusion from a possible leaking windshield or cowl.
this does not look to be an a/c truck. I don't expect any a/c parts to be found on it    
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

wasteland_jack
Hi, all, and thanks for your input! Here is what he has said so far:

"The PCV is just vented down the back of the engine rather than running through the carb.  I've used a Haynes book for this truck and many other vehicles I've owned.  I've grown up fixing and restoring vehicles with my dad, thought my son would enjoy it too, and that wasn't the case.

Bearings, ball joints, and tie rods seem to be good.  We have not dove into that, but there haven't been symptoms to suggest there is an issue.

There are two tanks, we have only used the front tank, which has a new filler neck.  I don't know the condition of the rear tank, that was on the top-do list prior to deciding to sell the truck. With the HEI distributor, it has a direct 12 v connection as required. The stock electric module for the stock distributor is still mounted, just not connected. I kept the stock distributor and you're welcome to it.  Lastly, there is not a spare tire mounted to the truck."

I plan to take a look at it around Noon PST on Monday.
I have an '83 F150, 6 cyl, auto, 4x4, 8' bed. My wife named the truck "Jolene" because I spend too much time with it.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

wasteland_jack
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I took a look at that truck today.
- There was some serious blow by, as I believe it's called. The cap to the oil reservoir was a solid cap, and a significant amount of exhaust was wafting out of it. It would have flowed into the air cleaner if there had been a stock EGR setup and I probably wouldn't have noticed. How much silvery smoke should I expect to see?
- The PCV tube hangs down behind the engine and the end of the hose is at the level of the oil pan.
- The rear diff looks moist at the drive shaft.
- The steering wheel had some play.
- There are quite a few 1 cm or smaller holes in the cab floor under the new matting and carpet. The floor appears structurally sound, and there is no frame, radiator, suspension, or bed rust. What would be the best way to patch the holes in the floor?
- The shifting was interesting. 1st gear almost touched the dash with the stick, and 3rd was a short throw by comparison.

Those were the things I noticed I looked it over before we drove. The motor runs very smoothly and sounds great. I got it up to 60 or so. After I drove it and returned to the driveway, however, there was a lot of oil on the lower portion of the engine to the rear driver's side, and especially on the drive shaft. We revved the engine when the car was stopped but couldn't see any oil spraying. It was a quart low. I don't know if they cleaned the engine before I got there, but it appeared to my eyes that this leak had just started while I was driving it.

Other observations:
- They only use the front fuel tank. The metal fuel line for the rear tank was exposed at the end of the metal line, and fuel was leaking out of it after I returned from the drive. They said they would plug it before I came back.

They have a lift and supposedly have the skills, so I told them that I was still interested and would come back if they fixed the oil leak.
I have an '83 F150, 6 cyl, auto, 4x4, 8' bed. My wife named the truck "Jolene" because I spend too much time with it.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The way Positive Crankcase Ventilation is supposed to work is that there's a line from the valve cover to the carb or intake, which puts a vacuum on the crankcase.  And on the other side of the engine, the other valve cover on a V8, there's a line from the oil filler to the air cleaner, so that air sucked in there is filtered.

Without that system there's positive pressure in the crankcase and blowby escapes, like you saw at both the filler and the hose at back.  Even new engines have some blowby, but old engines may have a lot - and still perform quite well.

So the oil leak may just be the blowby?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

ArdWrknTrk
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He's describing a road draft tube...
How old is this engine, or the guy working on it?
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, that's effectively what it has - a road draft tube.  And those went away in the mid to late 60's.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

mat in tn
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
yes, the way it is set up right now, it is acting as a road draft tube in lieu of a pcv system. the reason that you may be seeing it near the oil fill cap is that there is a pcv valve in place even though the hose is not properly connected. this is acting like a closed valve because it is spring loaded against engine vacuum (when installed properly) therefor the crank case pressure is having to find the next best place and may even be damaging the rear main seal. at the crank level, crank case pressure can very well be pressurized oil where at the valve cover it may not. and crank case pressure increases with load. revving in neutral has very little load on the engine  
 I will say this. the seller has a lift! this is an indicator that they know all of what I'm saying and "may" be trying to pass a problem off. if you like it enough. make an offer low enough to handle it.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

wasteland_jack
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
If, say, the PCV tube is the source of the apparent oil leak, where would all that oil go if the tube was hooked up to the carb as designed? There was a significant amount of oil involved. Probably an â…› of a quart or more after a 10-minute drive.

With (2)09,000 on the odometer, what engine seals are likely to fail soon on a straight 6?
I have an '83 F150, 6 cyl, auto, 4x4, 8' bed. My wife named the truck "Jolene" because I spend too much time with it.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

Gary Lewis
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The PCV line goes into the intake and, in theory, gets burned with the fuel.  But as earlier said, there's a PCV valve that has a restriction in it so it isn't a fully-open line, which would lean out the air/fuel mix too much.

If the engine has a lot of blowby then the rings are leaking.  That's the way combustion gases get into the crankcase, not truly seals.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

mat in tn
also, the pcv system is set to maintain and not expected to catch up or overcompensate for excessive blow by. when it is NOT connected correctly the crank case vapors and pressure just accumulates til the next pressure relief avails itself. often it's the cork gaskets but spring-loaded rubber shaft seals are the weakest link. especially when 40 years old. remember. the old style road draft tube would not have a check valve blocking it like a pcv valve so pressure would not accumulate as much.  
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

wasteland_jack
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this PCV tube now connected to the fuel vapor output on the carb that would normally go to the charcoal canister?
I have an '83 F150, 6 cyl, auto, 4x4, 8' bed. My wife named the truck "Jolene" because I spend too much time with it.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

wasteland_jack
I have an '83 F150, 6 cyl, auto, 4x4, 8' bed. My wife named the truck "Jolene" because I spend too much time with it.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

mat in tn
OH MY! you are correct. get that off of there!
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

mat in tn
the pcv draw needs to go to the plenum area of manifold vacuum. plenum so that the pcv vapors get drawn by all cylinders. as equally as possible. it normally goes as close to the carb as possible but under. the carb bowl vent needs to go to the charcoal canister to reduce latent fuel vapors. if no canister then it can be capped as the normal vent is in the venturi air stream at the top of the carb under the filter.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

wasteland_jack
This post was updated on .
That was their fix for the road draft tube that was venting a great deal of oil.

I've never heard an engine run so smoothly. I really wanted this truck, but I'm not sure about the work these guys did to it.
I have an '83 F150, 6 cyl, auto, 4x4, 8' bed. My wife named the truck "Jolene" because I spend too much time with it.
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Re: Evaluating a new purchase

mat in tn
there is no vacuum potential at the bowl vent. and if there was any it would be negated by fuel vapor pressure. but since the engine was venting crankcase vapor and oil then that will now be going into the carb. how much used oil do you think it will take to clog up a carburetor? then there is the heated vapor trying to vaporize the fuel in the same space. how long did it run hooked up that way?
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