Cruise control

[BeagleRock]

Hey gang my 83 351W cruise control surges no matter what speed it's set at. It's so bad it's not usable. Any ideas thanks Randy.
 Oh, carb has been swapped out in place of the 7200VV but did work briefly with current carb. MC 2150.
 One more thing, it idles and runs Great in town but when I get on it she stumbles and almost dies shortly after reaching 3rd and final gear.
  

[Gary Lewis]

A surge while on cruise control could be due to a lean cruise mixture.  If there's not enough fuel to easily accelerate the cruise keeps opening the throttle until the vacuum drops to the point the power valve opens.  Then the mix is rich enough for the engine to run well so the truck takes off and the cruise control backs off the throttle.  The vacuum comes back up and the power valve closes.  And now the mix is too lean and the cycle starts all over again.

A vacuum leak could easily make the fuel/air mix to lean for the engine to pull well.  Or a stuck open EGR valve could do that, but you said it idles well and a stuck open EGR valve will frequently hurt the idle.

Now for the stumble.  I can't tell from what you said if it stumbles immediately when you give it a lot of throttle or if it waits to stumble until it hits 3rd gear.  And, how much throttle do you have on it when that happens?

These two things may be related.

[BeagleRock]

Thanks for replying Gary, what you said about the cruise makes perfect sense and more than likely is related to the stumble or starvation of fuel. As for how much throttle, it's punched and will rarely do it in 2nd gear but almost as soon as it hits 3rd it's like it's running out of fuel.
I can let off of throttle and it will run fairly smooth. It seems to be a weak fuel pump perhaps or a clogged filter on the frame which I plan on changing tomorrow hopefully, because I bypassed the tank selector solenoid and noticed a little wet spot of gas going into the little metal filter.
Thank you so much. P.S. I got my window channels and sweeps installed on this beautiful but windy Oklahoma day! No more window rattle.

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On Friday, March 16, 2018 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

A surge while on cruise control could be due to a lean cruise mixture.  If there's not enough fuel to easily accelerate the cruise keeps opening the throttle until the vacuum drops to the point the power valve opens.  Then the mix is rich enough for the engine to run well so the truck takes off and the cruise control backs off the throttle.  The vacuum comes back up and the power valve closes.  And now the mix is too lean and the cycle starts all over again.

A vacuum leak could easily make the fuel/air mix to lean for the engine to pull well.  Or a stuck open EGR valve could do that, but you said it idles well and a stuck open EGR valve will frequently hurt the idle.

Now for the stumble.  I can't tell from what you said if it stumbles immediately when you give it a lot of throttle or if it waits to stumble until it hits 3rd gear.  And, how much throttle do you have on it when that happens?

These two things may be related.

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[Gary Lewis]

I'm jealous of the window channel/sweep upgrade.  I'm headed to Grove and back in Big Blue in about 10 days and it is going to be a noisy trip if I don't get that job done.

Anyway, it could be a weak pump or plugged filter, or both.  Try that and see what happens.

[BeagleRock]

My first and last time I'll do that job! The silicone spray really helped on the passenger side in other words I Googled installation after fighting the drivers side lol.
Be safe on your Grove trip!

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On Friday, March 16, 2018 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm jealous of the window channel/sweep upgrade.  I'm headed to Grove and back in Big Blue in about 10 days and it is going to be a noisy trip if I don't get that job done.

Anyway, it could be a weak pump or plugged filter, or both.  Try that and see what happens.

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[BeagleRock]

Ok Gary: cruise working this morning!
I haven't done anything to it yet today and it ran very smooth on the highway test. However when you get to almost full throttle ie; 3/4" before peddal hits the floor is when it starts to stumble. Maybe a throttle linkage problem ya think?

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On Friday, March 16, 2018 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'm jealous of the window channel/sweep upgrade.  I'm headed to Grove and back in Big Blue in about 10 days and it is going to be a noisy trip if I don't get that job done.

Anyway, it could be a weak pump or plugged filter, or both.  Try that and see what happens.

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[Gary Lewis]

Sorry, I missed this in the flurry of activity yesterday and today.

But I don't think the problem is throttle linkage.  If it runs well until almost floored then either it is running out of gas or it has an ignition problem.

So let me ask a question or two.  First, is it RPM dependent?  In other words, does it stumble at the same RPM and throttle combination?  Or, does it only stumble in a specific gear when it is really winding up?

And, what transmission do you have?  I think it is a C6 auto, but you are posting from email and your signature doesn't come through - assuming you have one.

If it is an ignition problem it should stumble at roughly the same throttle opening regardless of RPM.  But if it is stumbling at the same high RPM then it is more likely to be running out of fuel.

[BeagleRock]

No problem Gary I understand as I'm just getting home from working in Tulsa.
I'll try and answer your questions. Firstly I have no tach so can't answer that and it is a C6 transmission. I'm leaning towards fuel or lack thereof at full throttle, however it has stumbled or bogged down just before shifting to 3rd gear a couple of times. But you can bet the farm it will bog down 1-2 seconds after shifting into 3rd at full throttle everytime. So I'm thinking maybe a fuel pump or a low float setting but I didn't mess with that assuming it was your dad's old carb and was more than likely set correctly.
I still haven't gotten it back on the highway since putting some new fuel line and a new filter on down on the frame, maybe tomorrow since I'm punch drunk from being up nearly 30 hrs straight. Anyway I'll let you know what happens with that and go from there.
Thanks for responding Randy in Muskogee

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On Sunday, March 18, 2018 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sorry, I missed this in the flurry of activity yesterday and today.

But I don't think the problem is throttle linkage.  If it runs well until almost floored then either it is running out of gas or it has an ignition problem.

So let me ask a question or two.  First, is it RPM dependent?  In other words, does it stumble at the same RPM and throttle combination?  Or, does it only stumble in a specific gear when it is really winding up?

And, what transmission do you have?  I think it is a C6 auto, but you are posting from email and your signature doesn't come through - assuming you have one.

If it is an ignition problem it should stumble at roughly the same throttle opening regardless of RPM.  But if it is stumbling at the same high RPM then it is more likely to be running out of fuel.

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[BeagleRock]

Float level was way low Gary, got to specs but still abit sluggish in 3rd at about 65mph but markedly better! Might raise the level a tad more to see what that does. All n all I'm excited except for the rear main pouring out oil  fortunately this was built in February of 83 so it's a 2 peice and I don't have to separate the tranny! July and after had a 1peice seal according to my reading of literature.
 Fuel pump could still be weak though going back to the top of post. #smooth

[Gary Lewis]

I'd not personally gone through that carb, and if Dad did it was years and years ago.

But you are making good progress.  

[BeagleRock]

Indeed I am making progress! Noticed that the Jets in your Dad's old carb were #42 isn't that rather small being as though from reading some factory specs that they were #56 stock? I've never changed jets on the old 2100 autolite or any other I've tinkered with so don't really know how they affect performance.
 I was just wondering
 Thanks Randy

[Gary Lewis]

Wow!  42?  The catalog says that carb was probably E1TE-BGA and would have come from the factory with 53's in it.  Is there a tag on it?

I know that they had to jet the carbs richer to compensate for the exhaust gas that came in via the EGR valve, so it is reasonable to jet them leaner w/o EGR - which had been taken off of Dad's engine at some point.  But down to 42's?!?!  That seems extreme.

[BeagleRock]

Kinda what I was thinking although as said previously, I know nothing about jetting, only what I've read. Everything I've gotten my hands on says #56 but could go to #52 at altitude etc. But nothing in the 40s.
I thought it was for gas mileage because she'll barely turn the tires over with nothing in the bed. Not much power but consistent and it never dies on me like the the King of Carbs did, about got me t-boned more than once. Anyway I'll talk to you later on sometime and thanks for responding
Randy

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On Sunday, March 25, 2018 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Wow!  42?  The catalog says that carb was probably E1TE-BGA and would have come from the factory with 53's in it.  Is there a tag on it?

I know that they had to jet the carbs richer to compensate for the exhaust gas that came in via the EGR valve, so it is reasonable to jet them leaner w/o EGR - which had been taken off of Dad's engine at some point.  But down to 42's?!?!  That seems extreme.

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[BeagleRock]

Oh and no tag on carb unless it's the 121 on the bowl. But I've seen a few of those along with 1.08

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On Sunday, March 25, 2018 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Wow!  42?  The catalog says that carb was probably E1TE-BGA and would have come from the factory with 53's in it.  Is there a tag on it?

I know that they had to jet the carbs richer to compensate for the exhaust gas that came in via the EGR valve, so it is reasonable to jet them leaner w/o EGR - which had been taken off of Dad's engine at some point.  But down to 42's?!?!  That seems extreme.

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[85lebaront2]

Look on the side of the driver's side front mounting ear, if it hasn't been through a rebuilder the E1TE-xxx will be stamped there.

[BeagleRock]

Ok will do thanks!

[BeagleRock]

I need a call 📞

[Gary Lewis]

If you mean from me, email me your number.  I didn't keep it last time.

[BeagleRock]

918-360-4901

On Thursday, April 5, 2018 Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

If you mean from me, email me your number.  I didn't keep it last time.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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[Gary Lewis]

What time tomorrow? Into something now.