Bad oil consumption

[mp470]

This truck has quite low mileage (171,000km, ~106,000mi) if the odometer is correct. It did sit for long periods of time. Since I did the oil and filter, I drove about 800km (~500mi) and on the way back home this weekend, got too low on oil as the engine started clattering a bit.  It was short about 3.5qts.  I'm not rebuilding this engine as I have neither the shop, nor the tools. I did put 5w30 in there and I know that was a mistake. Any suggestions? Lucas oil additive and all that? Thicker oil?  There is a slight leak at the crank seal (how bad are these to replace?) but not enough to lose large amounts like that .

[Ford F834]

Do you think it burned the oil or leaked it? Lots of blue smoke? You might want to run a compression test. If the engine sat a long time the valve stem oil shields may be brittle and not sealing right, and other engine seals might be in poor condition as well.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, the seals may be a big part of the cause. But they may soften up some. Or, you might use a seal-sweller additive.

As for oil, try a straight 30W if you can find it.  

[mp470]

Blue smoke for sure but only ever at idle and not in large amounts.  The area underneath the crank pulley is wet most of the time but I've never seen any puddles underneath.  I haven't got around to a compression test yet, I have a feeling that will tell me everything I need to know.  For now I threw half a quart of Duralube Engine Treatment in there. We'll see if it does anything.  

[Gary Lewis]

The catalytic converter is apparently working, and eating most of the smoke. But you will probably see a lot more smoke in the first minute or sonthe engine is running as the cat won't be up to temp.

As for drips, if the leak is at the front seal the oil gets thrown far and wide by the crank and the harmonic balancer. So the only time it drips is the little bit that is still on the back of the balancer when you stop.

But I'm not sure Duralube will help. What little I read of it suggests it is more for lowering friction than sealing leaks. Something like Bar's Concentrated Rear Main Seal Repair would be what I would use. Speaking of which, why don't I?  Big Blue leaks, so I guess I'd better take my own advice.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

But I'm not sure Duralube will help. What little I read of it suggests it is more for lowering friction than sealing leaks. Something like Bar's Concentrated Rear Main Seal Repair would be what I would use. Speaking of which, why don't I?  Big Blue leaks, so I guess I'd better take my own advice.

460's are notorious for main seal leaks.
A little bit of glycol brake fluid in the oil will soften and swell them but it is not a long term fix.

Jon Kaase is now selling a 'one piece' RMS for the 460 that is not supposed to leak, but it is $$$.
I imagine if you figured how many quarts of oil it saved you and how much time you put into cleaning the engine, driveway, or replacing the clutch because it got wet you would be way ahead of the game.

Edit=spelling

[Gary Lewis]

Is there any machining needing to be done to use the one-piece RMS?  I could install it when I install the new pan and do all the other work.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Goes right in the same slot.
Obviously due to the flanged crank it needs to go in as the crank is installed -and the reason I put 'one piece' in apostrophes-

The seal is $66, but reports are very positive.

[Gary Lewis]

I found this about the seal.  I think I'll give it a try when the time comes. Thanks!

Edit: And this http://jonkaaseracingengines.com/kaase-releases-new-big-block-ford-rear-seal/

[ArdWrknTrk]

3.5 quarts in 500 miles???

Have you checked for suction at the PCV valve?
Sometimes the tube going to the carb flange is completely filled with cack.

Maybe your rings are sticking from sitting?
I would run a quart of Rislone or ATF before the next oil change and use high detergent diesel oil from here on out.

My truck hit 430,000 yesterday and that means I have ~150,000 mi on this engine.
Always using cheap diesel oil and a Motorcraft FL1A  it was amazingly clean inside when i swapped valve covers a week or two ago.

Do the cheap stuff first, before condemning the engine.

[mp470]

No carb, EFI.  I will check the PCV suction. I know it's relatively new and is a Motorcraft part.  I did run a bit of  Seafoam through the crankcase before the last change, now it's all black again.  I'm sure it's crudded up good.  I'll try the cheapo 15w40.

[Gary Lewis]

Since it sat for years the seals will have been dry. And crud may have built up on them or maybe even between them and the shafts. So it will take time to clean all that up and soften up the seals.

And Jim is right about the rings. So do several oil changes with lots of driving.

[85lebaront2]

Yours is an early EFI 302 from what I remember, that one has the PCV on the rear of the right valve cover, quick check for enough flow, take the hose off the air filter and see if there is vacuum or pressure there with the engine running. If you find that line and the air filter area very oily, either that is your problem, or you have a turbocharged Chrysler  mine on my LeBaron konvertible always stayed wet with oil.

Other problem, and loads of fun on that engine is clogged oil drain back holes in the heads allowing oil to puddle up there at higher rpm and loads.

[mp470]

When I first brought it home, the air filter was wet with oil and the crankcase breather filter was missing. Haven't looked at it since they were replaced. I did look at the PCV valve when I did the valve cover gaskets and it rattled nicely - not that it's necessarily an indication of it being good - never checked it while running. It actually goes into the passenger side valve cover from the rear of the intake manifold while the air filter breather hose goes to the driver's side valve cover / oil filler cap.

[Gary Lewis]

Just make sure that there is vacuum from the intake manifold on the hose going to the PCV valve.  Sometimes they get plugged, and then leaks happen.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

Just make sure that there is vacuum from the intake manifold on the hose going to the PCV valve.  Sometimes they get plugged, and then leaks happen.

Exactly my point!

The carbureted 302's had a metal tube going to the front of the spacer and this would get completely clogged.
Sure, the PCV valve itself would rattle, but there was no suction and oil would pump out all the seals, even with decent ring seal.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Another point on 5.0's

That line going to one cylinder can cause a lot of damage.
There is a reason most PCV's draw to a central location...

One cylinder (#7?, 8?) Is getting ALL the oil and that can and will cause detonation that destroys the top of the piston down to the compression ring land.

It is a common mod to move the PCV vacuum source to the plenum for this reason.

[mp470]

Well the PCV hose vacuum is just fine.  I had a good look underneath and there's oil all over everything but somehow it doesn't make it to the ground.  Someone butchered that oil pan gasket pretty bad. It looks like they used some kind of universal cork gasket and then gooped grey RTV where the leaking spots remained.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Looks to me like someone had the timing case or oil pan off and used rtv like they should where the the front half circle seal meets the pan rail gaskets.

You could always install a one piece oil pan gasket but it's a real pita with the engine in the truck.

When you had the PCV disconnected to check for vacuum at the hose how bad was the puffing coming from the valve?

A leakdown test will determine if your blow by is the same across all cylinders (worn) or something like broken rings in one cylinder.

[mp470]

What do you mean by puffing from the valve?