Autoline carb experience - best to avoid

[66gtk]

I purchased a rebuilt Autoline carb for my 84.  This carb has been a disaster.  I spent 2 days trying to tune it correctly and wasted a lot of time double, triple checking all my vacuum lines and other BS.  Burning my arms over and over trying to turn the mixture screws, yadda yadda.

I pulled the carb for the second time and noticed that the top was cracked!  I started taking it apart and found that it was cracked because the surface it was mounted to wasn't even close to level and they cracked the top when they tightened it down.  There were details missed all over as I went further and further into the carb.  Dirty parts, too.  What a piece of junk.  I was very disappointed.  I would avoid this company as they don't do what they promise to do.  I wasted 2 days trying to make this thing work and it was NEVER going to work based on how it was put together and "rebuilt".

When I called them I was treated well with understanding and the guy was accommodating for the return.  Still, these are advertised as ready to go.  Many of the various adjustments that are supposed to also be pre-set were completely wrong, too.  Choke pull off, high idle cam adjustment, kickdown, etc  

[Gary Lewis]

That's a shame.  But thanks for letting us know.  Some times it helps to share a link to your post with the vendor so they see that they've been called out for real.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, et al, this exactly why the only rebuilt carbs Preston Carburation had were done in-house. I know what I sold to a core supplier, R. N. Grillo and company, they were junk that wasn't repairable, yet rebuilders would pay money for them.

Best story, Vince Grillo told me on one trip he would pay $10 per core for Chrysler Holleys, I went around to all the dealerships we sold to and bought up the Holley 4 barrels at $4 each ($1 per hole). He came on his next trip and I had him leave extra 55 gal barrels the previous time, 6 barrels of Chrysler Holley 4 barrels. He asked if he could just pick one at random, count them and multiply it by 6. I told him that was fine. He was peeling off $100s like they were $1s. Next trip he had some choice words, he ended up stuck with most of them. I told he asked for them, I just obliged.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - As you know, but for the others, a Chrysler Holley was my first ever Holley.  And I developed an intense dislike for them right then and there.

I grew up on Carters, WCFB's & AFB's, and then learned about Rochesters - 2GC's and Q-Jets.  Good, solid carbs.  But the @#$%^&*( Holley on my brand new 1969 Super Bee was junk from Day 1.  Forgetting that it was jetted way too lean, which was due to Chrysler trying to meet emissions, the body itself was warped.  There was no way to keep the gaskets from leaking, and if you didn't drive it frequently the bowls would leak dry and the gaskets would shrink, so you then had major leaks.

And due to the jetting it would frequently backfire through the carb and blow the power valve and/or the accelerator pump.

So I can understand why you could buy those things for $4/each.  And obviously even that low price was too much as he was stuck with them.  Even the head of Conoco's machine shop couldn't square mine up enough to keep it from leaking w/o getting into passages.  As I said, it was JUNK!

And to add to that story, several years ago I was at Carlisle for the Chrysler Nationals.  I took a pic of a survivor '69 Bee but the gentleman that owned it wasn't there at the time.  Later I looked closely and realized there was an AVS peaking out from under that un-silenced air cleaner.  But, given all else I knew about the car it should have had the same Holley as mine.  I'd gotten his name and assumed that he lived w/in a couple hundred miles of Carlisle as he'd driven it there, so I called every person by that name until I found him.

My first question was "Do you have an AVS on the car?"  He said he did and I asked if it hadn't come with a Holley.  He said it did but that it was JUNK and he quickly replaced it with the AVS, which had been on there for years w/o any problems.  But, in this case he'd kept the Holley in case someone silly enough wanted to put the car back stock.  Maybe it is worth more than $4 now?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I have to say that this is a shame.
Not only for you, but for the two or three members of this forum who have been advised to purchase Autoline in the past (week?)

Hopefully your experience is the exception rather than the rule, but the proof is right there.

I was just commenting that things are made to a price and not for reliability.
I think it was in regard to ignition modules, but come on!
If there was ANY meaningful QC at the Autoline factory that carb would never have seen the light of day.

[Rembrant]

I'd say that overall Autoline reman parts are generally pretty decent, but I have zero experience with their carbs. However, I do see Autoline tags on old truck carbs all the time, so I know that they're busy if nothing else.

My one experience with them was a SBF distributor that I bought. It was certainly a usable part, but it looked really bad...the aluminum casting should have been scrapped, but had obviously be sand blasted and re-used. The screws that mount the vac advance canister on were stripped in the aluminum housing. I opted to not use it since I was building a "pretty" engine, so I scavenged some parts out of it and used them in my original distributor that I cleaned up.

One other comment is that I called them about the amount of advance in the distributor, and the response I got was that a DSII distributor is a DSII distributor, and I have a feeling that you might get some different calibrations with the same Autoline part number, for example.

I didn't really consider it a bad experience....but I wasn't overly happy with the part I received. Somebody else could install that distributor in an old pickup and run it without issue for a decade, ya know?

One can only imagine that garbage that gets sent back to them for cores.

On the flip side, I do know of lots of guys that are running Autoline reman carbs with great results.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, Holley and Chrysler released a modification kit for the secondary metering body. It reversed the gasket sequence and the instructions specified checked the metering body for warpage and to replace it with an updated design.

The original Holley 4160 series had a roughly rectangular metering body on the secondary side in lieu of the metering block the 4150 series used. These were attached to the main body with 6 screws (countersunk flat head that had a clutch head drive to install or remove them. This was a cost saving design and also a space saving as it cut roughly 1/2" off the secondary side allowing for the dual Holleys Ford used on the 427 engines. The original design had two corners at the outer ends of the bottom and when the gasket stackup (cork main gasket, thin steel separator plate, rubberized paper gasket and metering body) the zinc alloy body casting could warp from heat and the lower corners pull away from the gaskets. Since the outer lower corners contained the idle passages, a warped metering body opened the idle passages in the main body directly into the float bowl.

The update included (if needed) a redesigned metering body with the unsupported corners eliminated and a new gasket stackup sequence, it was now a full coverage rubberized paper gasket, a full coverage steel plate and finally the cork (later composition) bowl gasket. This effectively cured the problem with secondary metering system (side note: works on the 4180 Ford used).

The other issue with the Chrysler Holleys was Chrysler's decision to use engine modifications rather than air pumps. The primary idle and transition circuits were unique to the Chrysler carbs and required a special primary metering block and gasket. If a normal Holley gasket was used in error the transition circuits were blocked and you had a huge dead area as the throttles were opened. The other cute issue, in order to meet the anti-tamper requirement, Holley changed the idle mixture screws to air bleed screws making them work backwards so the mixture could only be made so rich, not rich enough to fail testing. The final piece of the problem was ignition timing. The engineers found that retarding the timing allowed for a leaner idle mixture so Chrysler went from having initial timing around 12.5° BTDC static, to 2.5° BTDC static and even some at 2.5° to 5° ATDC on some engines with a propensity to backfire through the carburetor on sudden throttle openings and frequently on hot restarts. The "Highland Park Hummingbird", Chrysler's gear reduction starter, didn't help matters either. You could walk out of a shopping center or large store and hear a Chrysler product's classic "ying, ying, ying, boom, roar" nearly every day.

[1986F150Six]

I am sorry to hear of the poor quality for the rebuilt carburetor.

I, on the other hand, am one who has praised Autoline's carburetor rebuilding. The one I purchased through RockAuto, many years ago [7+?], was spot on from the time it was installed until the present. It has performed well and has never had to be worked on rather than the occasionally required seasonal adjustment of idle speed.

[Gary Lewis]

On the Autoline issue, it appears that they put out some ok stuff and some that is, obviously, bad.  Apparently they just rebuild whatever comes in, so if a bad core comes in they may use it.  So buying one of their products is a crap shoot.  But I still think they should be aware of this thread and the very negative impression that carb has left on many of us.

On the Chrysler/Holley thing, thanks for the info, Bill.  I experienced all of what you outlined, and then some.  As I'm sure you can imagine, that experience has warped me - pun intended.

However, at the time I didn't lean on the dealers for repair.  I had no idea that there was a kit for fixing that piece of junk.  As said, it was my first Holley and I assumed they were all like that.  And given that, I've done my best to stay far, far away from their carbs since then.

I see a very good parallel between Troy's experience with Autoline and my experience with Holley.  A customer's view of a vendor is very easily soured by selling them junk.  And the vendor may never get an opportunity to correct that view as the customer may never darken their door again.  In addition, the customer will tell others about that vendor's horrible products - for decades to come.

Given my experience I won't buy a Holley carb, and given Troy's experience I won't buy anything from Autoline.

[Gary Lewis]

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm known to lick my wounds and walk away.
Where you point out that negative feedback could cause them to step up their game and rectify the problem.

You're absolutely right that a sour customer is far more likely to publicly scorn (a company) than someone who gets proper product that simply meets all their expectations is to praise them.

But then, you never considered doing this to Holley, all those years ago?  

[1986F150Six]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

But then, you never considered doing this to Holley, all those years ago? 

Gary was younger and less experienced, then!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well I must say he has the patience of a saint, and diplomacy down pat now.  

[Gary Lewis]

There were no forums back then.  Not even an internet.  So the individual didn't have much of a platform from which to complain.  Had we had forums like this in '69 Holley would have heard of my problems, very quickly.  And they then might have said something like "If you'll take it to the dealership there's a fix for our stupidity."

Many times I heard that "Highland Park Hummingbird" and I knew my power valve was gone.  Again.  

Had I known then that the AVS came on the 335 HP Bees and the 330 HP Bees got the awful Holley I'd have had an AVS right then and there.  Problem solved.  But I didn't learn that until later - after the internet came about and I joined a Super Bee forum.

[ArdWrknTrk]

While I have to say I've never encountered all your Holley troubles, I also am more than a decade younger.
But, having raced them, I look for things like warped bodies and flanges as a matter of course.

As my sig shows I've got an AVS on here now, and aside from a broken plastic plunger it's been pretty trouble free.
Though it probably could be bigger, and definitely should be if I were running headers like you, it meters well to its limits.

But this is quite a diversion from the thread topic of rebuilt carburetors.
And as Bill points out, they are probably all pulled haphazardly from a drum (no matter what Rick says about calibration and keeping parts together)

It's an interesting discussion and I wonder if anyone on the forum has a particular positive experience with a rebuilder?

[Rusty_S85]

Speaking of Holley`s I bought and paid the core on a reman holley 4000 for my '56.  the choke cap was cracked with a weak spring that wouldnt allow for full closure when properly set at index  They also chopped off the hot air choke threads and forgot to put the choke thread saver on there.

They sent me one but it took 2 weeks to get it so I robbed the whole choke assembly off my old carb I kept but I am hunting down a NOS choke housing though to put with my old carb as I am sending it out to this holley 4000 specalist that actually rebuilds the carb the right way vs just throwing in a rebuild kit like so many and shipping out.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Rusty, who rebuilt your 4000?
Holley themselves???
Autoline?

Why do companies expect (literal) garbage to be well received?

[85lebaront2]

I rebuilt many of those, in addition to Ford IHC used them on some of their HD truck engines, the 549 in particular. The 55-56 Lincolns had a different variation on it, larger for the bigger engine. The 1957 T-Bird 312s E and F code used them also E code had 2 and F code had one with a McCullough supercharger.

Properly set up they run quite well and as some of the off-road people found, will damn near run on their sides.

[Rusty_S85]

Champion Carburetors did the one that is on my car currently.  Some times I get flooding from the top of the float bowl from the floats sticking but shut engine off restart it and no problem anymore.  Its worked quite well its just been a pita with having to swap my choke housing from my original carb on the car.  I kept the original one to send out to this expert I came across but I dont remember off the top of my head but I did talk with him and I dont see emails but I am sure I still have them but he told me he actually resurfaces all mating components to ensure they are true and flat.  I really want to have him rebuild my old original one as I plan on a frame up restoration on this car.  I just paid the core and got this carb just so I have something to be able to drive the car.

[Rusty_S85]

I never rebuilt one, I been too afraid to attempt it from all the talks about how easy it is to screw them up cause they are so simple and cause a fire hazard.  But this carb has worked flawlessly for me once I got everything lined out from the hot air choke.  I know they arent kidding though about switching the accelerator pump between the summer and winter settings when the weather changes cause it does make a difference.

Only problem Ive had with mine is every now and then if the car sits a bit I get a flood out from the fuel bowl vents but shut the engine off and restart and the float is working normally again.  I think ive had this happen 3 or 4 times since I got the carb almost two years ago.  Im dreading right now cause I havent been able to run the car in some 5 or 6 weeks now but hopefully the stabil ethanol treatment is doing its job at protecting the carb from ethanol troubles.