Another round of projects.

[IDIBronco]

Been reading about the dual port distributor some.  It looks like it is controlled from the 3 port thermal operated vacuum switch on the thermostat housing.  It is able to control the amount of advance due to allowing vacuum to go to the distributor to basically negate the vacuum advance.  I could be wrong, but the vacuum diaphragm for advance has the ability to have vacuum applied to both sides.  When the thermal switch allows vacuum to the retard side of the diaphragm it negates the force being applied to the advance side of the diaphragm.  

http://www.concoursmustang.com/speegle/68%20Mustang/Article%20-%2068%20Vacuum%20Routing.pdf

I looked at this for a while, but I need to really think about how I want to plumb the system back up.  

I need to figure out the advantages and disadvantages of using the manifold vacuum source and carb referenced vacuum source.  

I am sure it all falls down to how you want the system to act, but I figured out just enough now to know I definitely do not know enough yet...

[FuzzFace2]

If me I would not plumb it to the retard side port only the advance side port.

As for carb port or manifold port for vacuum they say try it either way to see what works best for you.
Dave ----

[IDIBronco]

For the time being I am leaving the retard side to atmosphere.  I have all loose vacuum lines plugged.

I do have some weird observations in trying to get this thing started again...

1. Now if I leave the wire that energizes the solenoid from the key hooked up as soon as you try to hook a battery up it tries to crank.  Bad ignition switch?  The switch is currently in the run position.  I have tried turning key off and on a few times.  I turn the key off, hook up the battery, and turn key to just run and it tries to crank the starter.  Turn key off it stops.  Anyone had this issue?

2. I have that wire unhooked and turned the key to run position so I can attempt to crank and observe from the passenger fender using a screw driver to energize solenoid to crank.  So far it will spin around a bit then when it does try to fire it is a solid backfire and spins backwards a bit.  So far I have installed a new coil and duraspark box.  I have done nothing other then open the distributor and clean the contacts a bit and reassemble.  So I can't have other it out of time.  

3.  Upon unhooking the battery after playing with it 3 different times now there has been a spark discharge that rotated the motor as soon as the battery looses connection.  

I am really scratching my head.

Does the duraspark have the ability to retard the timing with the key in the start position?  It would make sense the ignition timing is too advanced when trying to start by jumping the solenoid then causing a condition where the cylinder fires too soon pushing the piston down opening the intake valve and a rush of "backfire" comes through intake and carb.  

I am struggling trying to work this out at the moment.  All emissions and egr are removed/ plugged.  I have the carb fuel mix set at 3/4 of a turn out from bottomed out.  I have adjusted it as far as 2 turns out and everything acts the same.  

This is a new knock off carb from China.  

Any ideas?

Input greatly appreciated.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes. The DSII retards the ignition 1ms (approx 4°) while the starter is engaged.
IF the wiring is hooked up correctly.

Any ignition will fire when you allow the field to collapse in the primary side of the coil.
This will happen when the module opens the ground...
***When you remove power to the hot sure of the coil...
Or even if you tap the DSII distributor with a screwdriver handle.

It could be a mis-adjusted ignition switch.
But then the relay (and starter) would be engaged all the time the key was in the 'run' position.
Gary has the procedure for inserting a pin and loosening the two nuts holding it to the steering column.

[Gary Lewis]

If it cranks when you hook up then maybe you are connecting to the wrong small pin on the relay?  One side connects to the key and the other to the ignition to retard the spark.

On the ignition switch instructions: Documentation/Electrical/Ignition and then the Ignition Switch tab, IIRC.

[ArdWrknTrk]

It does appear that (at least in the '81 EVTM) The retard is triggered directly by the ignition switch, not the 'i' terminal of the relay.

DO note that red and white wires cross at the DSII module power plug  (C321)

[IDIBronco]

The original solenoid had just one small terminal and 2 large terminals.  The replacement (from the 1981 van) has 2 small terminals an 2 large terminals.  One marked "S" and one marked "I".  I assumed the wire that had run to the previous solenoid ha to go to "S" on the new solenoid.  The "S" terminal has clean threads and was where the van wiring was connected.  The van left the "I" termal empty just as it had been on the van (light rust on the threads).  So I just matched the van.  When I get a few minutes later I will look at trying to realign the start switch, although I have a good switch I think on the automatic column I removed from the Bronco during the C6 to T19 conversion.  I may try to install it.  

I also have noted and may not have mentioned this welding truck is a T18 not a T19.  I had never looked closely enough at the driver's side of the transmission to see the lack of the second PTO cover.  I didn't actually realize that until I took the starter out the other day.  I also have found a Ford remanufactured tag on the engine block directly above the starter.  I haven't tried to clean it off to inspect what the tag shows yet, but clearly this motor is not original.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Windsor bell pattern trucks got the T-18 (with deeper 1st that's not synchro)

To the best of my knowledge only the 460's and diesels came with T19's.

[Gary Lewis]

Yep, only the 460's and diesels got the T-19.

[IDIBronco]

After thinking about it some this evening I think I will go ahead and dig out my vacuum hand pump and pull a vacuum on the retard side of the distributor tomorrow.  I just want to get it to start and run and figure out getting the carb tuned.  Perhaps I can work the system to operate for now.  Then I will try and work out the start/solenoid issue.  Seems that it should be able to sufficiently retard the timing enough to get it to start without the retarding from the duraspark, and without adjusting the distributor any.

Will report back after that.  

I didn't realize the sbf was stuck with the T18.  If the truck doesn't get fixed up and does get used for parts I will save the transmission for the m38 willys Jeep I have parked waiting for it's turn as a project.  I understand there are adapters available 1" long that would allow a short enough package to fit.  Plus the low first get would work in the flat fender.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Both T-18 and 19 use the Ford 'butterfly' transmission to bell housing pattern.

In that regard they are interchangeable.

[IDIBronco]

It isn't that the t18 would be better.  The whole situation is the IDI Bronco and the Dump Truck both have t19s.  I have a spare T19 out of a 460 truck sitting in the storage box.  I would probably just keep the T19 for the diesels.  The T18 has a lower 1st gear which I find more appealing to the Jeep.

The Jeep...

Is a 1950 m38, stock 3 speed with a sbc that is locked up.  It is basically the same as when I drug it home.  I have always liked the Ford 2.3 Liter 4 cylinders.  I happen to have a turbo spec motor on the engine stand for the Jeep when I get around to working on it.  I have a transmission to bell housing adapter and a bell housing that should allegedly adapt the stock Jeep transmission to the Ford 2.3 I picked up from an older gentleman that had lots of old Willys.  I just have never taken the Jeep apart to try to see if I had all the right parts.  I think I would prefer to make the Jeep a 4 speed at the same time if I am doing it.  

I do not know of a factory bellhousing that is for the 2.3 to t18/19.  I know I could use a 2.3 to sbf adapter and run a sbf bell housing, but that is the only way I know to do it.  

Getting a bit off topic now though.  

IF/WHEN I start the Jeep project I will have to poll if it should make the cut to be on this forum...  

[Gary Lewis]

IDIBronco wrote

IF/WHEN I start the Jeep project I will have to poll if it should make the cut to be on this forum...

Wait!  You are going to put a T-18 out of a Ford truck in a Jeep and you don't think it should be on here?  

[IDIBronco]

Honestly, I never know which of my project people will find interesting.  I try to pass useful information along when I can, but I am seldom an expert.

I did this afternoon spend a couple hours rewiring the trailer lights for the welder/compressor trailer.

I got about the cheapest led submersible lights on Amazon and a trailer wire kit I had left over from redoing someone else's lights.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FTJ59L1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_F64YHBRAC2YY8H7YSHH8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I have these same lights on my dump trailer I put together and the back of the dump truck.  So far I am sold on the l.e.d. lights like these.

I used a new product for the wiring connections.  I had only recently found out about these heat shrinks with the built in solder joint.  You seal and connect in 1 pass with a heat gun.  So far I am pretty impressed with them, but I will have to see if the connections remain in good shape.  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08LC44RH2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_DS7D10WP483NWDKXDKP8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I double heat shrunk all splices with the marine heat shrinks with the adhesive that seals them up.  I also used electric tape where the wires went into and out of the tube frame (I ran the wires front to back internally) and on the pigtail to connect to the truck.  Tomorrow I may road test the trailer to town to fill the welder with fuel and see if I can catch the family member I got the welding truck from.  He requested wanting to hear the welder running and welding one more time if I got it going.  

Will have to see how tomorrow goes on the projects.

[Gary Lewis]

I was kidding, but I do think people will be interested in your Jeep build w/a Ford engine and transmission.

I've seen those connectors for sale but have never heard how well they work.  So I'm anxious to see a report on them.

As for taking the welder by to show it off, that will really be appreciated, I'm sure.  

[FuzzFace2]

When I was in high school, trade school, 1 of the shop teacher had a 60's Jeep with a SB Ford in it ho towed in to do a little work on. Dont remember what work was needed now.
Dave ----

[IDIBronco]

Ideally I would love to drop a small diesel motor in and an appropriate manual, but my budget would never allow that.  Or even better...  Take a wrecked roxor if I could find one and swap my body/title to it...  Instant modern brakes, modern engine, 5 speed, turbo, ability to get a tuner and run 75mph and pretty great mpg...

But that is day dream material...

Back to the realistic projects.  I went ahead and loosened the distributor and rotated it a few degrees retarded (by eyeball).  I have nothing to lose on adjusting the distributor, after a bit of considering options, since I will need to pull it apart more to recurve at some point in the near future and will want to dig the timing light out to play with the timing.  I have the battery on the charger currently for more attempts to start/tune this afternoon.  Yesterday I took the welder/compressor trailer on some road test drives.   The hubs are good as there was no excess heat.  The wiring appears to be holding for the lights.  I even got the chance to swing the welder past my retired welding buddies house.  He of course was excited and ran to grab 10 or 15 rods and a piece of scrap to test the welder out.  I was happy to hear he gave his approval saying "runs awefully smooth still" and that he thinks it should do well.  I figured it was in pretty good shape, but this is the first motor driven pure dc machine I had used.  I didn't have any frame of reference for what it should weld like.  I am very happy indeed.

[IDIBronco]

FINALLY!!! The motor, after 2 adjustments retarding the timing, coughed once and spun the motor the right direction. Played with the choke settings some and it fired up... Idle was set way too high. I backed it down a few times and it just sounds better and better. Running smoother than it did when it first started. Must have been the vacuum leaks making the idle so rough before. I am going to dig out the timing light and look up the base timing specs and see if I can do any good adjusting the timing.

Very happy again.

[Gary Lewis]

Yippee!!!!  

[IDIBronco]

I didn't actually use the timing light since I need to recurve still, but I did tune it roughly by ear.  Then adjusted the carb just a tad richer then I had it at.  Now it throttles up quick and rpms drop off pretty fast too.  Close enough for now to move forward on to other aspects.  I think I will pull the throttle bracket and try my hand at shortening it.  I just made a new choke exhaust tube out of some break line and tapered the end to fit the manifold with some light taps with a wrench.  Need to pull it off and reinstall the heat wrap at some point.

I also need to reread about adjusting the ignition switch.