Alternator Upgrade Related Questions (was One-Wire Alternator Questions)

[dirtymac]

Thank you for the explanation!  It helps a lot.

[Gary Lewis]

You might benefit from reading our discussion about rethinking the 3G pages here: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Rethinking-The-3G-Conversion-Pages-Process-td144886.html#a144965.  And I know we'd benefit from your thoughts on it since many of us are quite familiar with wiring, 3G upgrades, etc.  So having you tell us what you think would be very helpful.

[ArdWrknTrk]

mat in tn wrote

this sure is starting to look easy on paper. I still struggle with explaining something like electricity that cannot be seen until it's too late. never an engineer but many years servicing in the field and everyone's thought process can be a little different.

It's easier to do than talk about.  👍
Gary always wants to OVER engineer everything.

I'm of the mind that if it works, and is not any danger down the line, it's fine.
(remember, there's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution that works.)

I grew up autistic, with an electronic engineer for a father.
I could bin resistors by colour code at 5.
I look at a schematic like a map and become an electron heading heading down a highway, turning left onto a windy rural road, hitting stop signs and one way junctions along the way to my destination.

[mat in tn]

I'm not quite there but I did learn map reading growing up a child of an on the road family band in new England. so, I look at everything like a map. even maps! I hate gps. I still map out where I'm going and often drive by memory from the map I read before leaving. I have been delayed by missing/stolen road signs but never defeated. on the highway, I always know where I am. exits, mile markers etc. I do follow schematics the same way. but when 47 different colored wires enter a wrapped bundle and t you can't see where they went., I still get stalled and must slow down and follow the basics. it is easier for me to wire the entire truck than trace down a glitch sometimes.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm guilty of just running an overlay rather than stripping an entire harness to find a fault (short or open)

[Solid State Module] is a map with "Thar b Dragon's ere" smack in the middle of your route.

My little brother has problems with his Altima not starting with the pushbutton.
The PMGR has a cascade of two relays before the solenoid on the starter.
There's also a circuit breaker at the battery+, a IPDM, a shift lever position sensor, PCM, BCM and another security module built  in the cluster.... all between the button and the starter.

I think the BCM is bad (behind the cluster) because the dash will randomly fail to go to sleep, like the door is open, but the 500ma draw goes unnoticed and kills the battery after sitting.
And if the battery is disconnected for any length of time the entire car resets and the problem goes away.

He doesn't want to pay, so my only advice is to get a battery disconnect like a race car.

[Gary Lewis]

We bought a new Murano in 2011 and took it on a drive to SE Okiehoma the very next day to see the fall foliage.  Taking a walk that evening a guy asked if that was our car that had the lights on.  Sure enough, it was so I started it and made sure everything was set correctly when I turned it off.

But the next morning the battery was DEAD.  After getting a jump we took it directly back to the dealer and told them it was their car.  They kept it in a dark corner of the shop for a week and every once in a while the headlights would come on.  Turns out Nissan had a problem with the body control modules.  They got the last replacement in the US at the time and it fixed the problem.

[ArdWrknTrk]

$2'500 car,
$1,000 module (if I can get one) and I need to completely disassemble the interior to remove the cluster.
That involves numerous airbags, the steering column, the dash that melted into paste years ago (polymer degradation, a known issue)

It's not a problem I want to get into for free.
In fact, you couldn't pay me enough at this point.
I'm glad it's nothing I had done.

[dirtymac]

It has been raining here all week and with no garage, I have not managed to get much done on the truck.  I did spend some time last night removing my coffee can to provide more access to the starter relay and the alternator wiring.  The can has been unplugged for some time and I'm pretty sure it's rusted out.

At some point, the previous owner had someone install relay between the C610 and the electric choke.  I'm not sure why, but I do think the relay is toast.  I tried to remove it from it's socket and it fell apart.  It's heavily corroded inside.  They also added a fuse to one of the wires.  Overall, I think this section of wiring may be in better shape than I previously thought.  I did clean it a bit.

Here are some pics from the starer relay and C610 back to the added relay and alternator harness.  Some are before I cleaned anything up:

[Gary Lewis]

Will - It looks like your engine-side C610 is good enough to use in the scenario we are talking about.  Would you want to try it?

[dirtymac]

Which one of the three =)

[Gary Lewis]

Are you up to soldering?  Can you put terminals on #10 wires?  If so, I'd do the Done Right approach.

What kind of a hurry are you in?  I ask because I'm planning on creating a prototype, but I'm not quite ready to do it.

[dirtymac]

I think I'm somewhere between the Cleaned Up and Done right.  I am replacing my ammeter.  It should be back in a couple of weeks depending on the RCC schedule.  They should have received it two days ago.

I still have to source an alternator.  I have been reading through the documents and threads on that.  I am trying to get 160amp unit but I have to figure out the physical sizing, bracket situation, potential re-clocking, and a dual v-belt setup.  I'm not in a hurry otherwise.

[dirtymac]

Any idea why there would be a relay on the electric choke?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Probably because someone saw I diagram for a 351HO and decided it was one of Ford's "better ideas"

[Gary Lewis]

Right.  The original 2bbl carb had a choke that was run from the stator output of the alternator.  That puts a 1/2 wave rectified voltage that should measure about 7 volts on most DVMs.  But if they put a relay on they probably were sending full battery voltage to the choke, which wouldn't have worked well.

Or, they may have put the relay on if they changed out the carb, as many aftermarket carbs take battery voltage.

[dirtymac]

Ok that sounds potentially like my situation.  Previous owner had two remanufactured carbs installed over a five year period.  The one I got it with was undersized and had a sloppy throttle shaft.  It did have an electric choke, which I'm still trying to use and figure out.

I've been fighting with this electric choke in a white temperature range at this point.  From 105 last August down to 18 degrees two weeks ago.  My personally rebuilt carb is working well but I'm still sorting out the tuning.  I have it idling well (most of the time), but I don't think the choke is working well or consistently.

I read that the choke needed 7V and was supposed to be connected to a white wire.  This was months ago but I couldn't find a white wire (I was afraid to clean anything electric at that point).  I measured the voltage coming to the choke after cranking the truck and it was 12v.  I checked the part number and as best I can tell, it needs 7v.  I forgot about all of this until last night when I was cleaning things up.

If i do have a 7v choke, or replace it with a 7v choke, can I just connect it back t othe green wire its connected to now?  It runs down to the alternator, but I have not verified where it goes.

Wait, let me go check the schematic ... I can't find a white/black wire coming out from the bundle that goes down to the alternator.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The white and black stator wire ensures that the choke only opens if the engine is turning.

If you set it up for 12v key on, if the engine stalls while it's sitting there warming up the choke continues to come off, and you likely have NO choke* when you go to restart it.

Motorcraft 7v chokes have a single bullet connector while 12V caps from Holley or Edelbrock have two spade connectors.
It's easy to tell at a glance.

AND you can swap a Motorcraft cap onto any Holley carb.....💡

[dirtymac]

It is a single wire choke, so 7v with a single spade connector :)

[ArdWrknTrk]

No, not a spade connector.

[dirtymac]

Not a spade connector? My choke has a single spade connector on it.  No bullets and only one wire.

I must be looking in the wrong place for this white/black wire.  Does it by chance go straight from the alternator to the choke?  If it comes up the harness to the starter relay, I can't identify it.