Alternator Thoughts

[Gary Lewis]

While considering changing the voltage regulator on Big Blue's alternator I went searching for info that spelled out which part numbers have LRC and those which don't.  And the best page I found for that is this one from QuickStart.  And that says:

F794: Has no LRC

F795: Has LRC

But that page has a link to this page of theirs that outlines several high output alternators they sell.  But the page confuses me a bit, like one entry that says "130 Amp & 140 Amp" and then offers only 140A units.  

So I'm going to lay out what I think I'm seeing and welcome your comments.  But unless they cannot keep the internal diodes cool and they eventually burn up, why would you order a 140A or a 160A unit with an external bridge?

140A alternators with:

Single bridge of diodes capable of 210 amps: $260

Dual diode bridge, one internal and one external, with a total rectifier capacity of 420 amps: $310

Triple diode bridge, one internal and two external, with a total rectifier capacity of 630 amps: $360

160A alternators with:

Single bridge of diodes capable of 210 amps: $300

Dual diode bridge, one internal and one external, with a total rectifier capacity of 420 amps: $370

Triple diode bridge, one internal and two external, with a total rectifier capacity of 630 amps: $400

200A alternators with:

Single bridge of diodes capable of 210 amps: $360

Dual diode bridge, one internal and one external, with a total rectifier capacity of 420 amps: $420

Triple diode bridge, one internal and two external, with a total rectifier capacity of 630 amps: $460

250A alternators with:

Dual diode bridge, one internal and one external, with a total rectifier capacity of 420 amps: $480

Triple diode bridge, one internal and two external, with a total rectifier capacity of 630 amps: $520

[85lebaront2]

Gary, Darth's alternator is one of RJM's 160 amp units. I bought it form a fellow on FTE who had bought it for his truck, and then ran into some financial dificulties. It came with a good sized piece of cable. I have a 200 amp fuse in the connection to the battery positive connection on the starter relay.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Do you know what Ryan did to call it a 160A unit?  I suspect it has 160A-capable diodes in it as Ryan advertised this:3G 200Amp Rectifier $75.00 Converts your 130Amp 3G alternator into a 200+Amp animal!

In looking through the QuickStart offerings I don't see any heavy duty windings or anything else that would suggest they are doing anything but bigger/better diodes.

If that is the case then the diodes must be the limiting factor.  But that makes no sense as QuickStart sells 140A, 160A, and 200A alternators with 210/420/630A diodes.  So what is the difference, other than diodes, in their various alternators?  

I think I'll call them tomorrow.  Maybe they can enlighten me.

[85lebaront2]

I am pretty sure the diodes are the limiting factor. Supposedly that is how he uprated the 3G 130 amp units.

On your recalcitrant alternator, do you have a heat gun? Take it and heat the front aluminum case along the area where the stator laminations insert into it. Al expands at roughly twice what iron or steel does. Once it is well heated, take a brass hammer and go around the joint area with it while applying pressure to the shaft. That should possibly break the corrosion bond between the two dissimilar metals.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm having a hard time understanding how the diodes can be the limiting factor.  QuickStart sells 140A, 160A, and 200A alternators with what seems to be the same 210A diodes.  At least all three writeups say each has 210A diodes.

So I just sent them this email:

I was looking over your page on Ford type 3G Series High Output Alternators because I'm considering upgrading the 130A 3G I have on my 1985 F250.  (Might be something to do with the 12,000 lb winch, 3KW inverter, etc.)  But I got confused with what I was reading, so I started a thread on the Bullnose Forum to try to get my thoughts together and see if others could sort me out.  (We routinely upgrade the miserable 1G's and fire-starter 2G's to 3G's on these trucks and our how-to's are used around the world.)

Basically it looks like you have 140A, 160A, and 200A alternators and all have the same diodes capable of handling 210 amps in single-bridge mode.  So what is the difference in the alternators themselves?  Why is one capable of 140A and another 200A?


Thanks,
Gary Lewis

As for the recalcitrant alternator, I do have a heat gun and used it many, many times to get the case as hot as I dared and then hit it with a hammer at the sticking point while having a large weight on the shaft.  I had the case supported on the front half and there was no movement.

So I gave up and installed it.  Maybe some day I'll put an alternator on with more capacity and the proper clocking.  Which is one of the reasons I've asking questions of QuickStart.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Cooling the diode board is the limiting factor.
Ryan used a board with heavy copper and diodes that could better take the heat.
There's only so much air you can push through even a 148mm body.

WTH is wrong with a regular 160A alternator?
You have two batteries, ..
I realize that the compressor or winch suck the juice, but they will never run for long.

I guess I'm asking "To what end?"
When 'more than enough, is just about right'
A while back i unsubbed Big Blues thread because I just get sick and tired. (so maybe I shouldn't even reply to this thread?)

[Gary Lewis]

My question in this thread is not what alternator to buy but what is the difference in QuickStart's alternators.  They don't mention anything different between the 140, 160, & 200 amp alternators except the output, and apparently they are all running the same 210A diodes so it isn't that.

I'm just curious - how do you get more current out of something who's outside dimensions are fixed?  They don't offer, at least from what I can see, any better, stronger components that would explain how it is done.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Have you asked them directly?  .

Ryan made plenty of tests available and showed how he implemented better heatsinks.
But you can't begin to fit bigger fans in a 3G case, and speed is determined by the pulley, so there's nothing anyone can do there.

Or.... It's all marketing 🐂
Which is more often than not, my conclusion after examining all the facts....

[Gary Lewis]

I did send them the email shown in my post on Saturday morning, and just got this response at 7:30 on Monday morning: "The higher amp. alternators have higher amp. stators in them, i.e., the 200 amp.  alternator has a 200 amp. rated stator."  So that's very good customer support, and very good information.  (I hope they are reading this.)

I do see in their listings that "Stators come out of Georgia."  So apparently they are getting special stators wound that give higher currents.  This I can believe.

But if they are reading this I'd suggest that they put a bit more thought or organization into their advertising.  They could simplify things a bit and still provide more information, like the info about the stators.  And what is better about the voltage regulator they use?  How about charts showing the output vs RPM?

Curious minds want to know, and information like that certainly helps me make a decision.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Sorry. It's been very hectic between a kitchen install, being up in North Branford for my nephew's graduation, helping my painter friend Shawn with light fixtures at an art installation, trying to fix my truck and my brother's neglected and abused vehicles, removing the dilapidated wheelchair ramp from his house and redoing the siding, front door etc.. (He's getting married and she's moving in "by Christmas, I hope!" 🤣)

[Gary Lewis]

No worries!  I only mentioned the Saturday post to explain why I was very happy with an early Monday morning response.  THAT is customer service.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not sure what genius MBA they have writing this "stuff"???

Given what I see today (2024) I'm surprised they don't have some kind of viral campaign on Tic Tok or.....

I'm becoming that cynical old man that mutters to himself and curses the sky for being sunny!  

[Gary Lewis]

Whomever wrote it just cobbled together information about each alternator w/o revising the format.  It is confusing and overly complicated.  Which is why I just sent them this email:

Gary Lewis <[e-mail]>
8:48 AM (0 minutes ago)
to Info

By the way, feel free to read the thread: https://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Alternator-Thoughts-td155045.html#a155167.  I've been impressed with your speed of response as well as the information included and stated that but added some suggestions.

Basically, I find your page on the 3G alternators confusing and overly busy.  I think it could be simplified because you don't need to state and re-state the same info about bearings, 210A diodes, etc.  You could do that at the top and say all of these alternators have these features: "Heavy Duty Voltage Regulator and Heavy Duty Single Bridge Rectifier. This unit is built in the USA and uses NTN bearings."

That would make the page much less busy and give you room to explain to those of us who wonder about these things that the stators are different between the alternators and that gives the added output.  And a chart showing the RPM vs output would help.  In addition, what is "heavy duty" about your regulators?  And, speaking of that, are there any LRC options?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Maybe it was written by a chatbot???  🤔

Seems all the rage these days!