85 460 dual tanks

[Gary Lewis]

My 19 gallon rear tank was a tight fight in Big Blue, so I can see that it might be worse in a C&C.

Anyway, I have a Spectra F26D in the shop that I got with Big Blue and haven't used.  It is a 38 gallon tank that is a replacement for the 33 gallon Bronco unit and it has the larger opening, as shown below.

Spectra says the dimensions are as shown below, but then I've put my tape on and get slightly different #'s:

              Spectra        Gary
LENGTH 34-3/4 in.     34 3/4"  This is actually the width, meaning between frame rails
WIDTH   27 in.           27 1/4"  This is the front/rear measurement
HEIGHT  13-3/4 in.     13 1/4"  This is the height.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Didn't we go through the whole Bronco sender bung thing with Chad a couple of months ago?  🤷
Is it for a '90's FSB that has FDM's?
Because otherwise the documentation is wrong.....

The stock Bronco tank is shorter front to back than a truck tank

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I think we did have that discussion with Chad.  And the catalog has been wrong plenty of times before.

But the Spectra page has a loooong list of applications starting here and going up to the F350's w/a 460.  So should take the Bullnose sending unit, although it takes some mods to drop it down in that tank.  I believe I have all of that as well as the straps and spacers.

[Gary Lewis]

Here's info from the 1985 Body Builder's book.  This is the right page, correct?

The 35.04" appears to be centerline of the bed/frame bolts.  But the 37.52" is the outside of the frame, so if you take maybe 1/4" off each side that would seem to say that the inside of the frame is about 37".  So that would mean that the 34 3/4" tank's flanges would go in?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Seems to me that the bed bolts are 33.70" (856mm) on center and 35.04 (890mm) is the distance between bumper brackets or something
Maybe 33.70 is supposed the distance between frame members and the drawing really sucks?
Maybe I can't read a drawing on my phone?

I'm sure you have a better handle on this than I do.

[Gary Lewis]

I can't really tell.  In any event it looks like the tank should fit since the distances are the same for: HEAVY DUTY F-250 REGULAR CHASSIS CAB, 4x2 F-250 H.D. & F-350 REGULAR CAB STYLESIDE 4 X 2.

And oddly enough, Spectra doesn't list the tank I have as fitting a Bronco.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Mayby because the F26D is too 'wide'* (long front to back) for a Bronco chassis with a 104.7" wheelbase?

Also note that "chassis cab" AKA bed delete is NOT the same as the heavy duty Cab & Chassis....

If you look at the plans of those trucks you will see that all of them are straight rail.(they continue straight after the cab)

Plus the notes everywhere that 350 DRW chassis cab are not available in 4x4.
While the only way to get a 4x4 250/350 dually back then was with the narrower frame (for mason's dumps and the like)

Yes, I know this is a 4x2 truck but that utility/bucket body is on a narrow frame.

Here you can see the Heavy Duty where the frame narrows right behind the cab.
864-150=714mm or 28.11" between the rails on a heavy duty Cab & Chassis truck.

[Haystack]

I need to crawl under this thing and really check it out, now that we have this good information.

After many years driving various utility beds and bucket trucks, I can say that they are all 34" when you get to the commercial vehicles. A utility bed for a newer f-450 will fit an old school f-800, or even a Hyundai cab over. We rarely messed with trucks smaller then f-450-550's, and most of our bucket trucks were actually retired almost semi-sized air brake moving vans.

Two big things I want to tackle eventually are the rear bumper and a trailer hitch for this thing. At one point, it did have a pintle bolted straight to the bumper. The bumper itself however, was pushed in and bent up into the bed. Not sure if they just backed it into something really hard or possibly even were rear ended hard with a trailer attached, but one side of the bumper is a good 4" higher or more then the other. The bumper is only attached to the utility bed, there are no "bumper brackets" like you would have on the rear of a normal truck.

When I saw that, I figured no big deal, I'll just get a big pipe wrench and bend it down. I stuck a 36" pipe wrench on it and broke the wrench. The rear bumper must be made out of 1/4" or thicker metal, and is painted over diamond plate. I can get the wheels completely off the ground without bending it with a jack, but doing the same on the rear of the c-channel frame bends it.

I did pull a almost brand new looking receiver off an 85 f-350 diesel dually at the junkyard yard, this truck donated tons of wiring and connectors for the tail lights and cab wiring. The receiver hitch wasn't even close to fitting the frame, it was resting on the rear spring hanger, which sticks down a good bit.

A bit of research I did after that shows that the 70-79 highboys and some of the bigger trucks had the 34" frame no matter what, while the 80-85's seem to all have had the 37" frame. I looked up the specs of a 79 38 gallon gas tank, it is much narrower, and also longer and deeper. Ground clearance isn't an issue, but the tank that's in there right now almost hits the pumpkin, so even if the 79 tank fit between the rails, it probably wouldn't fit with the axle.

A 19 gallon rear tank really isn't gonna cut it if I have to drive this thing 1000 miles acrossed the country. At 7mpg, that's only 127 miles. Considering I live in the Rockies, going up a long mountain pass would easily cut that range in half.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm used to wreckers, flatbeds and the F-450 i parted out for Gary & Bill.

How much wheelbase do you have to work with?
You can see the really big midship polypropylene auxiliary tank in the diagram above.
Might this work for you?
I realize that involves a tank Selector but the 6 port Pollak valve kit was about $75 last i checked on eBay and is 100% reliable

[Gary Lewis]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "The receiver hitch wasn't even close to fitting the frame, it was resting on the rear spring hanger, which sticks down a good bit."  Is the width of the receiver right for your frame?  If so then this 38 gallon tank might fit.

Lets do some serious comparing on our tanks.  Mine is easy to measure, but the dimensions I gave are including the lips, so the body is smaller.  If you can measure yours with and without the lips I can do the same, but not until tomorrow as I'm gone all day today.

Then you should be able to tell if this 38 gallon tank will fit.

[ArdWrknTrk]

If you look above, the spring centerline (L) on commercial chassis trucks is 40.24/5"

The springs are 2 1/2" wide instead of 3" wide pickup springs.

Edit: a 37.5" wide hitch will not fit a 34" frame....

[Gary Lewis]

Now I think I understand.  

Thanks!  

[ArdWrknTrk]

If the truck frame is 34" outside (per the drawing) then there's no way your 34 3/4" wide tank is going to fit inside the channels.

This is why I say the C&C trucks must  have a unique part number for the aft of axle tank.
(I think we've found another faux pas in the factory documentation 💡)

[Gary Lewis]

I think you are right. Wonder how we can solve this problem?  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Where do we begin to find the proper tank numbers for narrow chassis trucks?  
Honestly i thought they were all polypropylene tanks.
Maybe Ralph knows?

[salans7]

I'm late to the party, but if you guys think the clutch on these trucks is bad, try a 1995-2011 Ford Ranger. The master cylinder is mounted through the firewall and into the clutch pedal bracket at an angle, with the pushrod end pointing up. This means that air collects at the pushrod end, and it won't flow back down unless you remove the master cylinder and invert it. Not only that, but the hydraulic line has a 180 degree curve in it, that is also known to trap air. I have to remove the entire assembly from the truck, hang the reservoir up high, invert the master, and then stretch the curve out of the hydraulic line. I then have to tap on the hydraulic line from the slave fitting up to the reservoir. Once the bubbles stop flowing and there's no play in the pushrod, I can put it back in the truck, but I leave the master cylinder inverted. I then fill the reservoir and crack the bleeder on the slave and lightly push on the pushrod to push out any air that is in the slave or still in the master cylinder. This is the only way I've found that will get my clutch to feel "right" in my truck.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ford used to sell these things as a complete assembly, pre-bled because the service bay doesn't have time to screw around with bleeding.
Getting that tangled mess installed is no fun either.
We joked that they must have assembled it at the bottom of it pool of brake fluid.

If there was only a bleed nipple you could fill it backward like Bill suggested.
What did they save, $.05?

[Gary Lewis]

Another "Better Idea".  I always assumed those were "for me", but now I'm starting to see they were "for them".

On the tank question, I'm hoping that we'll get measurements on the existing tank that we can use to determine what it really is.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Looking above, Ford call the 19 gallon aft of axle tank 'auxillary' and I would think to have a look at pgs B68 & B69

[Gary Lewis]

Here they are Jim, but I don't think they answer the question?