460 is running rich on Edelbrock 1411

[ArdWrknTrk]

Most any instance says to plumb it to the cooler first and then through the radiator.(there's a reason the tranny cooler is on the return side of the rad)
The tranny fluid wants to be at a constant temperature, and about the same as engine coolant, so the engine coolant system acts to get it up to temp, but the large volume acts as a buffer (taking away heat, or adding it as needed)

[Gary Lewis]

Right, Jim.  The radiator isn't capable of shedding all the heat that tranny can generate, so the aux cooler drops the temp of the ATF before it gets to the radiator.  And it helps take some load off the whole cooling system.

But the radiator does help by raising the temp of the ATF when the air temp is cold, thereby getting rid of condensation that would otherwise collect.

[viven44]

I just followed the same plumbing order as the stock 460/C6 on parts truck/BB 2WD. First to the radiator, then to the Auxiliary cooler. It does make sense though to do the Aux cooler first, thereby reducing the load on the radiator.

Well... I had an errand last evening to run. I just got back. It was a 200 mile round trip. I was supposed to take BB 2WD but I had not had time to install the 'heat soak switch' and I did not want to overload the starter in the middle of nowhere... so I took the Bronco on an impulse. The Bronco did really well on the highway. The temp gauge showed ~180F for the first 15 miles... but as the ambient dropped to ~72F or so the temp gauge dropped to ~160F and stayed there pretty much the whole time, when I slowed down in Traffic it got up to ~180F. The transmission did great the whole time... but I can still tell the one on BB 2WD is more stout, as it was built for the 460...

I wish I had done the Aux cooler all along. Not sure why I did't do that, considering Ford had the 460/C6 combo paired with an Aux cooler (always?). The super cooling radiator I have was meant for the 400, but I hadn't really considered the additional burden from the 460. The C6 on the Bronco was also meant to be behind the 400, I know the C6 internals are more robust for the 460/diesel...

I am planning to turn in the C6 core from my 460 parts truck as the base for the rebuild....

[ArdWrknTrk]

From what I can interpret when Gary posted the MPC page with all the radiators on it, there's not any bullnose rad unique to the 460.
The only ones bigger and more capable are diesel ones that use the drop 'chin' radiator support.

But I am pretty sure the fan on a 460 is bigger or has more pitch than the Windsor fans.
I can't speak about the 351M/400 engines. (perhaps Gary knows?)
The right fan shroud is essential for proper cooling in southern climates.

Glad to hear the Bronco is behaving!  

[Gary Lewis]

You are getting the miles I was talking about on it before coming up on Friday.  I think you'll be fine.

[Gary Lewis]

Opps.  Missed Jim's post.  Yes, I do believe the fan on the 460 is more aggressive than that on the 400.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

Right, Jim.  The radiator isn't capable of shedding all the heat that tranny can generate, so the aux cooler drops the temp of the ATF before it gets to the radiator.

 I think the bigger point is that the ATF cooler is in the OUTPUT header tank.
The radiator has ALREADY done its job, and has no chance to knock down any additional heat that might come from the transmission heat exchanger before it heads off to the water pump.  💡

[viven44]

Everything is also constantly being air-cooled (very-effective) down to Ambient (At least on hwy) and radiatively cooled (not very effective) while not moving .... so the aux cooler will help dissipate some heat...

I did observe the coolant temp gauge, it was at 190F the whole time.... so the ATF would be heated up closer to 190F, if the Aux cooler did drop it some before (but not if plumbed the other way around ?). When it comes to ATF, within the operating temp regime, the cooler the better is what I understand for fluid life.

[viven44]

Yes, I think so too. Surprisingly I burned less than 1/2 qt oil the whole way. I topped off 1/2 quart when I got there and didn't lose any coming back.

Well... my wife's 2024 will be in the dealership as of this morning because the fancy 360 and reverse cameras quit working () . No loaners (of course!). So, she has to use the Bronco so will get more data.

[ArdWrknTrk]

190° is the thermostat temperature, it better be getting a lot cooler than that if it's going to have any ∆ to carry away heat as it goes past the cylinders to the back of the block and then forward through the heads to the thermostat (and bypass) before entering the radiator.

Cooler is not better when the viscosity needs to be constant.
The forward pump needs to make constant pressure, the torque converter wants a constant viscosity so the truck beheaves the same at all times, the passages/bands/clutches are engineered to be a certain operating temperature.

We had the Ford power train engineer who designed the E4OD (and whose father developed the C4&6) back at FTE.
I believe his name is Mark Kovalosky???
Cool dude and very engaged when questions came up.  👍

[ArdWrknTrk]

This is not dissimilar to Ford tuning carburetors for 105°F.
Cooler air can make more power, but you can't keep the environment at 20° all the time, so you shoot for something reasonable, use the CWM to draw warm air off the exhaust manifold or cool air through the radiator support and call that the baseline.

Sure, you may have days above 105, but unless you live in Death Valley those are outliers.

The same with component clearances.
Cam & crank bearings, rod journals and piston clearances are all cold measurements that should end up optimal at operating temperature.
That aluminum piston is going to expand a whole lot more than the cast iron bore it runs in.... 💡

[Gary Lewis]

You beat me to it, Jim.  The tranny is much like the carb - tuned to a temp.  Any temp variation above or below changes things.

So you put the aux cooler ahead of the radiator, which operates at a relatively constant temp, and that means the tranny sees a relatively constant temp.

[viven44]

All this makes sense... but I followed what was done from factory (BB 2WD, parts truck). The line from the Aux cooler runs to the transmission return (rear port on C6 -- assumed to be return). Front port of the C6 (Closer to the torque converter) runs to the radiator.

[85lebaront2]

You are correct, the return is directed to internal lubrication on a C6 (and most other automatics).

[viven44]

Thanks Bill for the confirmation...

About the long distance trip on Friday.. the day is going to be hot. Mid-90s. Too hot perhaps to be driving BB 2WD..

About the transmission, the moment the 1st gear went away is when I gunned it at the stop light trying to race this VW GTI  I don't know if I caused the governor to get stuck doing that ???

As long as I drive it carefully I have no doubts the Bronco would do just fine.... .

Also, the 3.5 gearing on Bronco vs 3.0 gearing on BB 2WD makes a big difference on highway cruising ease. About 2200-2300 rpm is where I like to be on the highway. On Bronco thats roughly 60mph, on BB 2WD, thats close to 70 mph.. Plus I'll be honest, the bullnose trucks just drive better than the dentside... hands down.. Air conditioning vs highway cruising ease... hmm... I've been debating.

[85lebaront2]

Now you know why I went MAF/SEFI on Darth and am using an E4OD. 60 mph is right around 1600 rpm, used to be 2200 with the C6. Even with the low compression due to carbureted short block and early EFI heads, he still got 12.5 mpg on a mostly 70 mph run from the Eastern Shore to Falling Waters West Virginia.

Darth weighs 6400 lbs empty, add 225 lbs for me and starting with 38 gals of regular gas so add 235.6 lbs so figure 6861 rounded to the nearest lb and I am turning 6 tires (or tyres if you prefer the British spelling).

[viven44]

That sounds about right Bill..

The Bronco weights about 5600 lbs with me in it and full tank of gas. The other day on my ~200 mile trip I averaged 9.5mpg, doing ~60-65 the entire time.

I have always wondered what the relationship between MPG and MPH is at cruising speeds. Clearly the RPM is higher for a higher speed, but you are also traveling further .... but I'm sure that tails off above a certain RPM (due to?)... I'm sure there is an optimal speed for every vehicle where it is most efficient. I don't know if there is an easy way to determine that....

[Gary Lewis]

Wind resistance goes up with the square of the speed. And while Ford says they spent a lot of time in the wind tunnel for these trucks they must not have used what they learned on them. The recessed headlights, grille, etc are worse than a barn door.

9.5 MPG isn’t bad but it isn’t good either. The C6 is a big part of the poor economy. As Jim says, it is one of the world’s best at turning energy into heat.

[ArdWrknTrk]

You're driving up to Skiatook on Friday?

How far is it?

[viven44]

It is about 270 miles...