460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
139 messages Options
1234567
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44
OK that makes perfect sense  Aligned with everything. I'll add this to my knowledge base. Use stainless steel when corrosion resistance is more critical vs. intrinsic strength.

Ford picked Grade 5 bolts back in the day. Wonder if they use stainless steel in this day and age.
Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
They won't go to the expense of stainless.
Grade 5 is lower carbon than 8 and therefore less prone to corrosion.
The work hardening also makes G8 less ductile than lesser grades.

Stainless is essentially cake frosting until you get into the aerospace stuff like Nimonic, Hastalloy or Inconel.

You should ask Bill about this stuff....
He spent decades doing material testing at Newport News shipyard.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44
On my way to lunch I went ahead and traded those grade 8 bolts for stainless steel .. I’ll use them for the areas exposed to water.. I’m doing it your way
Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Do it your way, my friend!  

Like I said before, I'm not trying to sell anything.

I'm just a materials science geek that wants to share the reasoning behind my choices.

Occasionally I come off as preachy or abrasive, unfortunately...

You must understand, having a kid somewhere on the spectrum.
"Truth's" are very important.  Diplomacy is not often our strong suit.  😉
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44
This post was updated on .
It’s my way from now !! and I’m not too far away from the spectrum so I get it.

I started my career in a semiconductor fab and the popular saying was “In God we trust, all others must bring data”. I was kind of groomed in that setting so I’m very data driven.
Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
You're in Semi?!?!

I'm right in the heart of what used to be an epicenter, with IBM all-over (HQ in Armonk) and ASML up the road in Wilton.
I really geek on that stuff. Process, optics, dopants, whatever....
A bunch of the guys in my rocket club used to work at research & prototyping for BigBlue in Yorktown heights and Fishkill.

I really like a Taiwanese guy on YouTube, Jon.
His channel is Asianometry.
Some good insights into the direction of fab in particular.

Guy has an incredibly dry and quirky sense of humor, that I enjoy.
I got that "He's one of us" right away..

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44
That’s really cool !! Been In semiconductor forever. Electrical is what I learned in school but I work with materials, processes but learned the fundamentals on the job.

I tend to over analyze and over plan my projects and it takes me longer but often prevents re-dos.

I have a question though. In the galvanic series, if stainless steel is more noble than the “engine block”, wouldn’t the block end up getting sacrificial i.e. thread’s possibly getting eaten up in a corrosion event??
Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Yes, chrome is high on the scale, but PST is an anerobic sealant.
No oxygen and no electrolyte means there can't be corrosion in the threads.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44
Ok, perfect! I’ll use sealant on all of them.
Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Today’s vacuum. Guess there is a slight leak as we’ve dropped maybe 5” in a couple of days. 😎

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44
Definitely can't wait that long to modulate the vacuum  

Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I didn't get a chance to get to my truck today, and measure vacuum at the distributor while running.

But tomorrow after birthday lunch, I'm going to give it a shot.  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44
I made a video just now, it is uploading will send link when done. From what I can tell V REST is a vacuum stabilizer. It does not restrict vacuum but really smoothes out the noise and holds it at the ceiling of all the noise. Similar to the function of an electrical capacitor to reduce high frequency noise.

I believe the function is to provide the distributor with a smooth vacuum signal as a cold engine has more vacuum fluctuation.

Edit: Here is the video link https://youtu.be/vZLuqVgxB-M
Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
This is what I've been saying all along.... 🤷‍♂️

I didn't know you well enough to use electronic analogies. (I try to keep it simple, here on the 'net. 😉)

So, I've come to another intriguing hypothesis.🧐
The valve itself is what's modulating the amount of vacuum.

The REST is being a resistor (!) limiting how fast the vacuum servo can charge or discharge. 💡

NOW it begins to make sense!
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by viven44
Ahhh!  The restriction is a resistor and the line and the vacuum canister would be the reservoir aka capacitor.  They get charged up and are reluctant to change.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44


Now these “useless” emissions discards have some use to me since I’m starting to understand what they can do 🤣 Until now I thought they were just a fire hazard!!
Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
It's all vacuum analogs of electrons.

There weren't computers that could perform under those conditions reliably.
And just like you said about a gearbox, good mechanics could grasp what they did, intrinsically.  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

viven44
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
I believe they are both capacitors, with the vacuum canister being a very large capacitor with plenty of capacity but able to operate at a lower frequency and the VREST being a high frequency "decoupling capacitor" that kills high frequency noise.
Vivek

- BB 2WD - 1984 F350 RWD 460/C6
- 1978 Bronco with a 460 from an 86 Bullnose/C6
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Can you tell riddles, puzzles and enigmas or another one of my "special interests"

I should have been come a cryptographer for CIA.  
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: 460 Straight up Timing Chain upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by viven44
The VREST is providing hysteresis..

..
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
1234567