40/20/40 in a 1986 Regular Cab

[SeaJay]

I think I figured it out but, before I spend the money I wanted some clarity/affirmation that I'm correct.

Under the "documentations/interior/seat-interchangeability" tab I found the following "Seat Pan: Starting in '94 Ford used a "pan" to mount the 40/20/40 seats in the trucks.  The "pan" mounts to the bench seat holes and accepts the 40/20/40 split bench seat."

This leads me to believe that swapping in a 1994+ 40/20/40 assembly will be an easy bolt in project.  All the talk about this "pan" swap I assume is if I wanted to mount factory buckets as found in Broncos and such.

I'm not sure if the 40/20/40 came in 1993 and older trucks, but on the assumption that they did, it sounds like these don't use a pan but would rather just directly bolt to the floor.  Assuming these exist, would this also be a simple bolt in process with a 1986 standard cab?

Thanks for the help in advance!

[Gary Lewis]

I don't know the answer to your questions.  And they are good ones.  Hopefully someone else will be able to answer them.

But I will say that the pans are getting hard to find and very expensive.  Given that, I'm planning on making an angle iron frame using the "feet" from a bench seat.  Some place on here on here I have pictures, but I'm not finding them.  In any event, I think you can make something pretty easily.

[SeaJay]

Thanks for the info.  I honestly don't believe there should be an issue, but I suppose there's only one way to find out.  I will be sure to update the forum once I install the 40/20/40 into my truck.  I'll be making some phone calls Monday to hopefully source a color matching set, hopefully for only $100 which doesn't seem too bad considering every other set i've found is well over $200.

The wife refuses to road trip in the Bullnose only because the bench is so uncomfortable... she's not wrong.  I've done a few 2hr trips in the truck already, and I have to admit, I'm a bit sore after.

Side note: since I practically live in the arctic circle I will be installing heated seats into the 40/20/40.  I've done a bunch of heated seat work in my career as an auto tech, so I'm confident in the process.  Maybe even run the old seat covers through the wash (hang dry for sure).  It'll all be a stealth install too, I want to keep the truck looking as close to era correct as possible while still doing some fun upgrades.

[Gary Lewis]

If you are handy you can create the needed mount by using the mounts off the existing bench seat and angle iron.

And adding heating elements would be cool.  No, hot!    But how much current do they pull?  You may decide you want to do the 3G upgrade to feed them.

[SeaJay]

I'll absolutely be upgrading the alternator at some point soon.

I assume you'd cut the original bench mounts off, bolt them in, then weld new frame/mounts to the those using angle iron where needed?  Even if the mounts are off, I can't imagine they'll be significantly different.  Probably difficult to explain over text.

[Gary Lewis]

You don't have to cut the mounts off the bench seat - they unbolt.  So bolt them to the floor, run some angle across them, more angle front/rear to take the other bolts for the 40/20/40 seats, and you have a mount.

I can take pics on Tuesday if you'd like.

[SeaJay]

I would appreciate that.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, here's my thinking, although I've not yet done it.

First, with the original bench seat bolted into the truck take measurements to determine where the seat actually is, front/rear and height, and at what angle it sits to the floor.  You'll want those measurements to figure out exactly how to mount the new seat.

In the pic on the left you can see the mounts on Big Blue's original bench seat.  There are two bolts per mount holding them to the seat itself, as shown by the red circles.

Then in the pic on the right you see those mounts bolted into Dad's truck and angle iron laid across them.  If you want the base to be able to slide fore/aft with the adjuster on the bench seat mounts the angle will have to be cut so there's a lip that will lay on top of the mount but the vertical part of the angle will have to be cut away to allow the mount to slide.  (If that doesn't make sense I can draw something up.)  But you might get by just fine by bolting the angle to the mounts just as I have it and then put the new seat where you want it by drilling holes in the short pieces of angle that run fore/aft.

Speaking of those pieces, I have one piece of angle laying in there to represent the far left piece, and then red lines to represent the other three.  I'd cut these pieces so they'll slip up between the front and rear pieces from the bottom.  And I'd weld them to the front and rear pieces so the whole thing is strong.  However you might get by just fine bolting them to the angle, although that weakens the angle.

But you want to put the fore/aft pieces of angle in the right places side-to-side to take the bolts from the new seat.  And in the pic on the right I've assumed the 40/20/40 seats will be like the buckets and bolt in 8 places, with 4 per side: 2 on the far right; 2 inboard of those; 2 on the far left; 2 inboard of those.

Does that make sense?

[Gary Lewis]

I had an epiphany!  We have the 1985 Body Builder's Book and I wondered if it has any pertinent info with regard to seat positioning.  Indeed it does, as shown below.  (NB: I've added those highlights to my copy of the book and it'll show up in the one in the link above in an hour or so.)

Here's the way I read that document as well as some readings off Big Blue's captain's chairs:

Seat Bottom Angle: I've circled in red the 8 degree spec, and I think that means the bottom of the seat is leaned back that much from "level", and I assume the door sill is "level" as that's where I took my measurement.  But Big Blue's driver's captain's chair is leaned back twice that at 16 degrees.

Leg Room: The max leg room, measured from the throttle to the joint between the seat bottom and seat back (I think) is 40.98".  But Big Blue's is 40" as best I can measure, and that's as I expected since it feels like I'm sitting a bit farther forward than with the bench seat.

Window Opening: I take the window opening measurement point to be where the door's outer skin turns in to form the window.  And I think the "Frame Datum Line" is the top of the frame, and measuring from there to the bottom of the window opening is supposed to be 14.25" + 13.82" = 28.07".  That works pretty well as I measure Big Blue's distance to be 28".

Seat Height: As I read it the joint between the seat bottom and back is supposed to be 14.25" below the window opening.  And as best I can measure Big Blue that measurement is 14".  But that's questionable as the captain's chairs have large bolsters on the edges and I'm measuring at the top of the bolster where it hits the back.

So what all this tells me is that I have Big Blue's seat tilted back 8 degrees too far.  And the seat is about 1" too far forward.  That's great because the top of the seat back is hitting the rear window, and that is preventing the seat from going farther backwards.  So if I'd change the angle I could probably get the seat back 1" more w/o hitting the rear window.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary, Axe H looks to be a crucial item for all these measurements.
I am wondering how to precisely mark it on the seat, since this one isn't made of perfect flat surfaces.

This Axe seems also to touch the rear rail end, when seat in its full rear position (my red arrow).

Probably not easy to determine the good position of your green circle, under real life conditions...

[Gary Lewis]

Jeff - I agree that H is crucial.  But I don't know how to measure it.  After zooming in on the PDF it turns out that the circle isn't truly at the point where the seat bottom meets the seat back.  It is actually a bit farther forward, and since I was measuring on Big Blue right to the joint and came up short of leg room it means it is even shorter than I thought.  But I don't know how to measure other than to that joint.

As for the rear of the seat rail, I think that is just happenstance.  They didn't point to that in the drawing, so I think it is a fluke.

And yes, it is difficult to measure in real life.  But I probably happen to have the ideal setup in which to do that as I have Dad's truck that has nothing in the cab so it is easy to measure to the cab itself and not the trim.  And because I have seats bolted into Big Blue with a Ford seat platform.  I may not have the seats in the perfect position with respect to front/rear and angle, but I have them in a very workable position.  And I'm sure they are in the correct position side-to-side as I used the factory holes in the platform.

Don't miss the new thread called Big Blue's Seat Platform.  

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

Don't miss the new thread called Big Blue's Seat Platform.  

Yessir, going there right now!

[myrl883]

I did it the easy way and used the seat pan that the OP talked about. I like bolt in! They were used in standard and crew cabs that had bucket or 40/20/40 seats.