1985 F350 460 vs 1989 E350 460 engine

[Gary Lewis]

Prashant made it here today, and plans to be in Atlanta in the morning for a meeting.  So, apparently he's driving most of the night.  Anyway, here are a few pics to prove he was here.

[85lebaront2]

If he's lucky that dog won't drop it's transmission before he gets there.

[Gary Lewis]

For a number of reasons he is taking it easy, driving about 60 MPH.  That should help the tranny.  But, it is obvious that truck doesn't have a tow package on it.  

Also, he's getting 9 MPG at 60 MPH with that Hemi.  We got the same pulling Big Blue and LOTS of parts at 75 MPG w/my Ecoboost.  

[85lebaront2]

Damn, I used to get that towing with Darth at 65-70 mph.

[Gary Lewis]

I'll put my 3.5L EB up against a Hemi in a Ram pickup any day and under any condition.  Acceleration, towing, or MPG.  In fact, the only place the Hemi wins is in sound - the little EB just doesn't sound cool.

Darth might be a similar story, although I suspect Darth would get better MPG than the Hemi under loaded conditions.  But think about how much more solid Darth would be as a tow vehicle than the Ram.  The Ram is a light 1/2 ton with coil springs in the rear, no trailer brake controller, probably no serious tranny cooler, and a high axle ratio.  

[PetesPonies]

He has no brake controller towing that heavy trailer that far???????????????? He will need brakes as soon as he "makes" it home, wow. I've towed a small auto trailer with no brakes . . for a couple hours. I can't imagine going that far, with no brakes on a trailer that heavy.

[Gary Lewis]

Yup.  Just looked at the Ram chart.  Assuming that truck has 3.21 gears, which are the standard gears, it is rated to tow 6,870 lbs.  My 2015 F150 is rated to tow about 5000 lbs more than that.  But even if it had the tow package and 3.92 gears it would still be 1000 lbs less than mine.

[khaitan]

Ha ha yes Pete. I was nervous but made it with no problem. It was rental truck so didn't care. I just had to pump the brake Patel few times to make a hard stop. 😊

[PetesPonies]

Some states it is illegal . .possibly some you passed through  :)  Good thing there were no problems.

[Nothing Special]

PetesPonies wrote

Some states it is illegal . .possibly some you passed through  :)  Good thing there were no problems.

 In Minnesota you need trailer brakes for trailers over 3000 lbs (or any trailer that outweighs the towing vehicle, even if it's under 3000 lbs).  I doubt that about 8000 lbs is legal without trailer brakes in many states at all.

[85lebaront2]

Ok, for the edification of all, here are some pictures, I used my new engine on the stand, but also have some pictures of the EFI accessories and brackets on the carbureted engine.<

Lower front of engine

Front, no brackets

Front with brackets

EFI AC bracket on carbureted head

[ArdWrknTrk]

Good photos Bill

The serpentine accessory brackets on the efi engine are very different from the carbureted V-belt ones.
One hole in the front of each head is tapped larger to accommodate.

Thermactor plumbing is far different and there is a Cat on '88& up trucks.

Because of the different valve geometry piston cutouts are different for efi engines.

Efi engines have a 'straight up' double roller timing chain from the factory.

The heads use center bolt cast valve covers and the manifold flanges  (both I&e) are different.

Early efi engines have big chambers and smaller piston dish than later F3TE castings.
A popular swap is late heads on an early short block for a little more compression.

if you want a carb on an efi engine with a manual gearbox the simple solution is Price Motorsport's CA 460-efi.
This fits a square bore onto the efi lower manifold and comes with brass plugs for the injector bosses.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Thanks for making the pics bigger.  👍

Jim - That helps my learning on 460’s. Thanks. Now I understand that the valve covers in a pic that Brandon sent from a salvage in CA were probably EFI ones. Right?

[85lebaront2]

Jim, the hole I highlighted, is not tapped larger on EFI heads, but is on carbureted heads. I highlighted that for reference as to which one was different. When I first installed the EFI mounting brackets I had to enlarge the hole in the A/C and PS side so I could use a 1/2-13 bolt there.

The brackets in the picture are an extra set I purchased off a blown up 460 so I could have them cleaned, clear coated and pre-mounted to the new engine.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes Gary, those are efi valve covers.
If you want a pair I will strip them off my future short block.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, but my heads aren’t EFI so I’ll get along with the OMC ones better. 😉

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, how far SE of you is Hulbert, OK?

Maybe I should follow through on the whole OMC 460 thing?

[Gary Lewis]

You found a complete OMC 460?

[85lebaront2]

The gentleman who built my engine told me the real reason the 460s weren't popular in stern drives was the torque, they could blow the upper gear box right off the drive, they had to put gear boxes for deisels on them, one for a 454 would explode with a 460.

[ArdWrknTrk]

No, just heads.

My quest continues....


I've never heard that gearboxes or outdrives can't handle the torque.
Just that things go sideways very quickly when massive power tears the engines loose from their bunks.
If they get loose *even a little* the misalignment will cause a lot of damage.


On another note everyone at the boatyard says you can never trust the French big block.
460's rule for longevity and the Olds 455 if you must have GM.