1985.5 F150 5.0 fuel regulator

[sgauvry]

Gents -

First - Congrats on your hockey medal.  All were hard-fought matches and very good games to watch!

Second - I am considering adding an external fuel regulator to my fuel delivery system. I know that my present setup includes a built-in fuel regulator on the fuel rail, but I want to ensure constant pressure of between 25-35 and am not certain I am getting that as I have never checked the fuel pressure (the 85 did not come with a method of checking fuel pressure since there is no place to connect a fuel pressure gauge).

I have two questions: 1. Could I use my present fuel rail setup with motorcraft fuel regulator built into the rail and an external, adjustable fuel pressure regulator and gauge attached that will feed the system? Or will such a setup screw up the works (or simply be redundant if I have good vacuum to the exiting regulator)? Here is the external fuel pressure regulator and gauge: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tnk-afpr1

2. Will it be necessary to replace the existing fuel rail system to incorporate the new fuel pressure regulator and gauge?  Here is the replacement fuel rail system: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-5248000r/overview/

I am planning to at least add a schrader valve to the existing system just before the fuel rail system so I can check fuel pressure, but I thought it might be a good idea to be able to regulate the pressure so as to have a consistent fuel flow at the correct pressure.  

Thoughts?

[85lebaront2]

Thank you for the congratulations, I was rather surprised by that outcome, as Hockey is, from what a friend told me, almost a religion in Canada.

Steve, the reason for the vacuum controlled pressure regulator is to ensure that the pressure differential is constant. If there is 0 manifold vacuum then the pressure as tested is the required 35-45 psi and running is reduced by the manifold vacuum. If at 14.7 psi manifold pressure (no vacuum) the pressure is 42 psi, then at 15" manifold vacuum = 7.4 psi therefore fuel pressure should be 34.7 psi. If you could achieve a perfect vacuum you would have 27.3 psi which is the differential pressure for the injectors. The computer has this value (essentially) in it's programming. A fixed pressure regulator will play havoc with your AFR values.

Now, a little digression, as you can see in my signature I have another strange vehicle, the 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible with the 2.2L intercooled turbocharged engine. On those systems the basic fuel pressure is 55 psi static, running, no boost, is around 45 psi, under boost it climbs to around 70 psi. This again is to maintain the required pressure differential, which for these engines is 40.3 psi.

[sgauvry]

Hi Bill -

Yeah, I fully expected you guys to take it all. Teams were extremely aggressive and physical (at least as much as Olympics rules allowed and sometime a bit more ).  

Thanks a bunch for the reply!  I will stay with the present setup and simply install a schrader valve for purpose of checking fuel pressure.  And I'll save a boatload of cash in the process.  

[Gary Lewis]

I think the Schrader valve with the existing regulator is the way to go.

However, there is no reason you can't run a fixed-pressure regulator ahead of the factory one.  You'd just have to make sure you provide a bit more pressure to the factory one than it will ever be asked to supply since there's a little loss across a regulator.  But it would work - although I don't see an advantage in doing so.

[sgauvry]

I was hoping for two advantages with my original plan that included a new fuel rail system: 1.  To always have my fuel pressure visible, and 2. to be able to make adjustments if necessary.  

But I think I was swayed from both those thoughts, although I think the first configuration with the new fuel rails and new fuel pressure regulator with gauge could work.

The expense is prohibitive and I've decided to just reconfigure the fuel line to incorporate a schrader valve that will allow fuel pressure gauge attachment.  

Thanks, Gary!

[Gary Lewis]

Sounds like a good plan, Stan.  

[sgauvry]

Thanks, Gary!

The name is Steve.  I know I've been getting names wrong too.  Hard to remember names when we're going by avatars.  So far, my friends here are you (GARY), 85lebaront2 (Bill), vjsimone (Vinny), and NotEnoughTrucks (Ray).

Please let me know if I have their names incorrect.  

All have been generous with their time and expertise.  I still can't get over the harness Ray sent to me.  It is in pristine condition.  Can't wait to get my engine installed and hook up the harness!

Steve

[Gary Lewis]

Sorry Steve, I say "Sounds like a plan, Stan" to everyone.  And you have the other names correct.

[sgauvry]

lol!  Got it!!  Thought possibly you were referring to Stan the Man as in Stan Musial. He was some ball player.  

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sorry Steve, I say "Sounds like a plan, Stan" to everyone.  And you have the other names correct.

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[NotEnoughTrucks]

I figured I may be the only Canucklehead here! Would you be surprised if I said I was not really a hockey fan?

Yup, names look right.

On pressure regulators, I believe that frame mounted Bosch pump is capable of 100 psi. The regulator on the fuel rail keeps it around 40 psi by bleeding the excess pressure off and back to the tank via the return lines. I don't think adding an extra regulator would accomplish anything. The OEM part does work quite well and the only thing you could actually do is pre-regulate the pressure to something above the 40 psi required by the injectors.

As to adding a gauge, how about using a later fuel rail which has the valve for pressure testing?

I'm currently deep in a diagnostic project on an 89 truck that I'm trying to resurrect from the dead. It has a fuel pressure leakdown problem and I'm getting all to familiar with the fuel delivery components.

[sgauvry]

Hi Ray -

You know, you've caused me to think a bit.  It's not really the pressure from the hp pump I want to measure, it's the fuel pressure in the fuel rail itself.  Right?

The only thing a schrader valve will do, if set up just before the fuel rail, is measure the flow from the hp pump.  That's not really useful unless I am concerned that the hp pump is working as it should.  Right?

There's the overflow stem at the back of the fuel rail, but if I connect the schrader valve to that, the only thing I'm measuring is overflow.  Correct? Or does the overflow experience as much fuel pressure as the rest of the rail?  I suspect not.

So, the only options for me is to splice the rear fuel line as shown in the pic, or replace the rail itself with a later model as you suggest. Or am I missing something here?




Steve

[Gary Lewis]

Obviously I'm not Ray, but I agree with what you said.  And, if was me I'd find a later factory rail that has the valve in it.

[sgauvry]

Thanks, Gary!  What year did Ford start including the valve in the rails?

Steve

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:23 PM, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Obviously I'm not Ray, but I agree with what you said.  And, if was me I'd find a later factory rail that has the valve in it.

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[Gary Lewis]

I can't answer the question of when the Schrader valve was installed.  However, I did put up the part numbers for the fuel manifolds/rails (Fuel Systems/Carburetors, Chokes, & EFI/EFI) and you can see that there was a two-piece design for your '85, and then a one-piece design for 1986.  But, there was another change for 1987 and following.  So, I can't tell if they introduced the valve for '86 or '87.

[sgauvry]

Thanks, Gary!  I've been searching on the net.  eBay offers a variety of rails (used) for mustangs of the 86 - 90's vintage, some with a schrader valve in the rail.  I also saw a few setups where the metal fuel lines were included and the schrader valve is actually in the fuel line.  A little nervous about purchasing any of those.  

I suppose that if the regulator works as it should, then fuel rail pressure is a given, which may explain why some have it in the fuel line instead of in the rail.  

I'm leaning toward splicing one into the hose connection between the two rails.  

All part of the learning curve...

Steve

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:46 AM, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I can't answer the question of when the Schrader valve was installed.  However, I did put up the part numbers for the fuel manifolds/rails (Fuel Systems/Carburetors, Chokes, & EFI/EFI) and you can see that there was a two-piece design for your '85, and then a one-piece design for 1986.  But, there was another change for 1987 and following.  So, I can't tell if they introduced the valve for '86 or '87.

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[vjsimone]

1985 EFI was the only year there was no shrader valve on the 5.0L, 86 on has it..

[sgauvry]

Hey, Vinny! How's it going?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: "vjsimone [via Bullnose Enthusiasts]" <[hidden email]>

Date: 3/23/18 7:46 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: sgauvry <[hidden email]>

Subject: Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 fuel regulator

1985 EFI was the only year there was no shrader valve on the 5.0L, 86 on has it..

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[vjsimone]

Best kind b'y......  Snowing here ....

I added a Shrader Valve in the line coming from the HP pump, but like your idea to put it closer to the rails on the crossover line.  Better reading I would say.

[sgauvry]

We got about 10 inches Tuesday (started around 2 PM) into Wednesday (ended about 8:00 PM), but on Thursday it was 45 and about half of what we got melted.  Temps hovering around 42 the last two days.  

Like your idea regarding the schrader valve.  I didn't implement the idea. Located mine before the rail with a permanent gauge.  

Having trouble now with wiring regarding my in-tank fuel pump.  Did the testing for voltage at the relay and to check for working fuel pump relay.  All checked out.  Seems to be a dead connection to wiring to the in-tank fuel pump connector.  0v registered.  No fuel being delivered.  Have Bill, Ray, and Gary in on this one.  We believe the problem is isolated to the wiring downstream from the hp pump.  I can hear the hp pump engage when the ignition key is on.  But there is 0volts getting to the in-line pump.  

Hopefully, that's just a small bump in the road.

Hope you are enjoying yourself in Newfoundland.  That's got to be a pretty cool place to live!

Steve

[vjsimone]

sounds like some lose wiring to me.

Vinny Simone

757-598-2347

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From: sgauvry [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <ml+[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 11:47 AM
To: vjsimone
Subject: Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 fuel regulator

 

We got about 10 inches Tuesday (started around 2 PM) into Wednesday (ended about 8:00 PM), but on Thursday it was 45 and about half of what we got melted.  Temps hovering around 42 the last two days.  

Like your idea regarding the schrader valve.  I didn't implement the idea. Located mine before the rail with a permanent gauge.  

Having trouble now with wiring regarding my in-tank fuel pump.  Did the testing for voltage at the relay and to check for working fuel pump relay.  All checked out.  Seems to be a dead connection to wiring to the in-tank fuel pump connector.  0v registered.  No fuel being delivered.  Have Bill, Ray, and Gary in on this one.  We believe the problem is isolated to the wiring downstream from the hp pump.  I can hear the hp pump engage when the ignition key is on.  But there is 0volts getting to the in-line pump.  

Hopefully, that's just a small bump in the road.

Hope you are enjoying yourself in Newfoundland.  That's got to be a pretty cool place to live!

Steve

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Bullnose Enthusiasts - 1985.5 F150 5.0 fuel regulator

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1985.5 F150 5.0 fuel regulator. Gents - First - Congrats on your hockey medal. All were hard-fought matches and very good games to watch! Second - I am considering adding an external fuel...

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